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Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

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Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#1
I only have my own situation and experience to go on, so I will start there. I'm in my late 30's. I make roughly $110k per year. I am single, no dependents. I live in a studio apartment near Seattle. I drive a 10 year old economy car. I do eat out some of the time, but nothing extravagant, and no drinks. Overall, I am not absolutely as frugal as I could possibly be, but I think I'm fairly frugal. My biggest expenses in the last couple years have been rent, medical, and dental in that order. My retirement is very under-funded. I do have more savings than most people, but it isn't enough to change my lifestyle in any big way.

A couple things. I am not here to complain about my lot in life, or seek advice. I understand that I'm better off than most. I realize it is unavoidable that some people will argue that the economy is better than ever, and it's all about personal responsibility. I accept that - I can just ignore those comments.

The only people I know who seem to be comfortable and have their financial lives in order have had steady, high middle-management type positions for a long time. They're a small minority of the people I know.

My question is, what is the problem, really? I am fairly sure this is not the type of situation my grandparents lived in. I feel under a lot of pressure all the time, and yet it seems I am not quite 'making it' financially or materially. Is that how it is for everybody? Is something wrong with the economy, or is this just how the human hierarchy has always worked? Is it me, the country, the region, the times, or everything, or nothing?

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#2
1) Peak Oil

2) Our so called "health care" system is extremely fubarred.

There's probably more, but those strike me as the big two.

Edit: To elaborate a bit on point 1, Peak Oil is not the end of oil. It is the end of cheap oil. The current U.S. economy and (expected) lifestyle was developed in the era of cheap oil. That era is ending, which is likely part of what is fueling the depression. Our current infrastructure, habits, etc are simply not sustainable with the cost of oil going up and not coming back down. (At this point, if we discovered that Antarctica or the moon were essentially 99% oil with a thin top layer of dust/snow/whatever, that would not solve this because endless expensive oil does not solve the problem here.)

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#3
I wouldn't necessarily say this is related to the economy (The economy has other issues), but more related to our culture. Our entire culture is focused around consuming, buying the next thing, having the nicest stuff, etc. Heck our high schools even teach us how to properly consume, and how to acquire things we cannot afford.

However in life you will have to pass up some things you want in order to maintain living within your means, as a result you are going against the constant consuming behavior that our culture has taught us, and feel a failure for not buying all that stuff.

I couldn't speak to the social pressures of the past (I didn't live through them). My personal experience is that when I was able to ignore the consuming pressure society gives, the amount of stress and pressure plummet and I have been able to enjoy life much to a higher standard.

Those middle managers may be in that sweet spot of enough to be comfortable and feel successful, but not so successful they feel the need to compete with the consuming elite of execs and millionaires. Don't be fooled though, there are plenty of people in other "class brackets" that are able to shed the stress and pressure of the US culture.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#5
I would say that the USA economy does not seem so bad right now because of Quantitative easing: a few trillion $$ in the last several years of new money created out of nothing. This has maneuvered housing and stock prices up, fueling a false sense of optimism and more consumer spending.

Long term, we have huge problems in my opinion. Our profligate military spending is going to catch up with us. If we are able to redirect our offshore military spending soon, things might be OK, but I am not hopeful.

Edit: I forgot to give my advice: don't get caught up in consumerism (stop watching TV commercials, don't get a new car every time your brother in law does, etc.). Try to save some of your after tax income. Invest time (and money if needed) in continuing education over your entire life.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#6
post #2

1) Peak Oil 2) Our so called "health care" system is extremely fubarred. There's probably more, but those strike me as the big two. Edit: To elaborate a bit on point 1, Peak Oil is not the end of oil. It is the end of cheap oil. The current U.S. economy and (expected) lifestyle was developed in the era of cheap oil. That era is ending, which is likely part of what is fueling the depression. Our current infrastructure…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#7
I'll start by saying that I feel your pain. I've had lots of discussions with friends where we expressed the belief that we all thought we'd be financially comfortable by now. Almost none of us are.

Some thoughts on both sides of this: 1 - My grandparents lost it all in the Great Depression. My parents never had enough money to take overseas vacation once the kids were born. They were never comfortable. This isn't unique to our generation.

2 - We have a lot of material gains that aren't factored into the equation. (Free internet, etc) But this is forcing us to compare against others a lot more. We only see the people succeeding, and don't count the failures.

3 - Once you discount the effects of obesity, we are a much healthier generation than our parents and grandparents. Think of all the major diseases (polio, flu) that used to be fatal.

4 - For better or worse, there is a "Winner takes all" mentality in the current environment. Globalization plus Technology means the best get paid disproportionally more than in prior generations. Upper Middle Class is getting squeezed. The "winners" are now earning a lot more, and are a lot more visible.

5 - In today's environment, losing a job costs A TON and is incredibly destabilizing.

I don't know what advice to give, other than don't get sucked in to the consumerism, or feeling forced to keep up with everyone else.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#8
Well, things have changed since our grandparent's generation. A college degree used to be a guaranteed ticket to a decent job, and even many blue collar jobs were much better paying and less abusive. Now being 30 years old and living with your parents is not that odd.

Now, debt, unemployment and inflation are soaring (if you want to see how bad it really is, visit cities like Detroit or the non-wealthy areas of Chicago).

There is a growing wealth divide. I have nothing against "1 percenters" but I do believe the gap is becoming dangerous. 95 percent of recovered funds from this recent "improvement" in the economy (since the last crash) have gone to the wealthiest 1 percent.

Our government's budget is increasing in size, but they are not spending money any more wisely. Certain contractors make a killing (particularly in the military sector), and its kind of a false economy based not on merit but who puts money back into their politician's pocket (in the "real" world, the healthcare.gov site would have been built for a fraction of the cost and its failure would have been a huge blow to the company that created it).

Part of this is people failing to adapt to the changing world or feeling too entitled and expecting their corrupt/indifferent government to fix every problem. Part of it is that automation and oversea workers are claiming many jobs (but these are crappy jobs you wouldn't want anyway). Automation is even going into territories you might not think of. 100 years ago the US population was almost half farmers (IIRC), and now it is less than 2 percent.

Basically, you are not delusional. Things are getting harder, and worse. Competition is getting fierce as everyone is increasingly competing to justify their worth to employers. The economy is definitely in a bubble because the stock indices does not reflect the reality of debt, unemployment, and our stale economy right now. I have no good idea of how these problems can be solved. I am no Luddite, but I think that perhaps taking a step backwards in time could be an interesting experiment - create more towns that are self-sufficient, grow their own crops, build their own houses, etc. It seems like much of the wealth is getting boiled down into the hands of fewer and fewer big companies.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#9

I would say that the USA economy does not seem so bad right now because of Quantitative easing: a few trillion $$ in the last several years of new money created out of nothing . This has maneuvered housing and stock prices up, fueling a false sense of optimism and more consumer spending. Long term, we have huge problems in my opinion. Our profligate military spending is going to catch up with us. If we are able to re…

What about spending on healthcare and pensions? We spend more on each of those than on our military.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#10

I would say that the USA economy does not seem so bad right now because of Quantitative easing: a few trillion $$ in the last several years of new money created out of nothing . This has maneuvered housing and stock prices up, fueling a false sense of optimism and more consumer spending. Long term, we have huge problems in my opinion. Our profligate military spending is going to catch up with us. If we are able to re…

What about spending on healthcare and pensions? We spend more on each of those than on our military.

Interesting to think a factor could be my grandparents still living their piece of the American Dream.
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