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Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

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Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#1

Post by danpinto »

I've read very often on HN about the coders that get rejected from or reject startup jobs because entrepreneurs have unrealistic expectations of work hours (80+) from employees.

When I post my jobs for engineers #1 and #2 for my startup, I keep getting younger less experienced coders that are willing to work those unrealistic hours. I don't seem to get those "coders with families" even applying to my jobs. Have they been scared off?

Is this happening because it is a small venture-backed startup, so crazy hours/dedication are implied? How do I shake that impression?

Is it a function of the skills requested? (1 Ruby data collection and 1 Rails)

I would much rather get those experienced coders that will want to work 40 hours. That's plenty of time to get a ton done and if they don't get enough accomplished in that time it's probably my fault as the CTO.

Have you guys had any luck with certain methods to reach those guys specifically? I want to somehow express that it is ok to have work-life balance but not end up with lazy candidates. My co-founder and I will of course continue to work those 80+ hours but that makes sense because we are the founders.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#3

Post by danpinto »

cschmidt wrote: post #2

I think you said it quite nicely here. Why not just say the same thing in your job ad?

Thanks. I guess I am concerned with the founding team not seeming hardworking enough to succeed.

I think I may just end up doing that as a test. Thanks again.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#4

Post by cschmidt »

danpinto wrote: post #3
cschmidt wrote: post #2

I think you said it quite nicely here. Why not just say the same thing in your job ad?

Thanks. I guess I am concerned with the founding team not seeming hardworking enough to succeed. I think I may just end up doing that as a test. Thanks again.

You should just say that directly then. Something along the lines of...

"Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week. If you're young and energetic, come join us. However, we'd also like the wisdom and experience of someone more senior. We understand you have a family and will need more life balance, and we're very cool with that."

I'd find that refreshing in a job ad. I'm 42 with a family, btw.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#5

Post by FurrBall »

cschmidt wrote: post #4
danpinto wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I guess I am concerned with the founding team not seeming hardworking enough to succeed. I think I may just end up doing that as a test. Thanks again.

You should just say that directly then. Something along the lines of... "Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week. If you're young and energetic, come join us. However, we'd also like the wisdom and experience of someone more senior. We understand you have a family and will need more life balance, and we're very cool with that." I'd find that refreshing in a job ad. I'm 42 with a family, btw.

That wording doesn't sound very attractive. Down right scary actually.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#6

Post by cschmidt »

FurrBall wrote: post #5
cschmidt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should just say that directly then. Something along the lines of... "Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week. If you're young and energetic, come join us. However, we'd also like the wisdom and experience of someone more senior. We understand you have a family and will need more life balance, and we're very cool with that." I'd find that refreshing in a job ad. I'm 42 with a family, btw.

That wording doesn't sound very attractive. Down right scary actually.

Which part? The 80+ hour a week part, or the wanting people with family part? I think the OP's point was that killing yourself at a startup is a young person's game, and he still wants to hire people more experienced people with families who are looking for ~40 hours. That would unusual in many startups, so I think it is worth mentioning. How would you say it better?

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#7

Post by timsaunders »

I think everyone in the company, at an early stage, should have a mindset of ensuring things are getting done, rather then working X number of hours. It should never be about the number of hours your working - some weeks it may be 100 hours, then some weeks it may be 30 hours. It should always be about building a great company and finding those people that are passionate about the same, family or not. Also, it is discrimination to actually not accept candidates based on whether they have kids or not. We never ask family/personal related questions in our interviews, as it is against the law to do so.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#8

Post by OafTobark »

cschmidt wrote: post #4
danpinto wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I guess I am concerned with the founding team not seeming hardworking enough to succeed. I think I may just end up doing that as a test. Thanks again.

You should just say that directly then. Something along the lines of... "Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week. If you're young and energetic, come join us. However, we'd also like the wisdom and experience of someone more senior. We understand you have a family and will need more life balance, and we're very cool with that." I'd find that refreshing in a job ad. I'm 42 with a family, btw.

I have a family and wouldn't reply to that ad at all

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#9

Post by FurrBall »

cschmidt wrote: post #6
FurrBall wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wording doesn't sound very attractive. Down right scary actually.

Which part? The 80+ hour a week part, or the wanting people with family part? I think the OP's point was that killing yourself at a startup is a young person's game, and he still wants to hire people more experienced people with families who are looking for ~40 hours. That would unusual in many startups, so I think it is worth mentioning. How would you say it better?

  "Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week."
This is where most people with a family would stop reading.

  "If you're young and energetic, come join us."
That is border-line ageist. The rest is a half-hearted apology that won't entice a normal person to want to work in the advertised conditions.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find "coders with families" in the Bay Area?

#10

Post by toomuchtodo »

cschmidt wrote: post #4
danpinto wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I guess I am concerned with the founding team not seeming hardworking enough to succeed. I think I may just end up doing that as a test. Thanks again.

You should just say that directly then. Something along the lines of... "Us founders are blitzing 80+ hours a week. If you're young and energetic, come join us. However, we'd also like the wisdom and experience of someone more senior. We understand you have a family and will need more life balance, and we're very cool with that." I'd find that refreshing in a job ad. I'm 42 with a family, btw.

"Our team is passionate and growing quickly. Perks include a healthy work/life balance."
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