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Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

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Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#1

Post by diminium »

I was reading some history on immigrants from Europe to America and how their entire future existence depended on keeping a portfolio book safe. If they lost that then, well, they got to start their lives all over again from the bottom of civilization.

Imagine if you had a large amount of knowledge, a tremendous amount that would rival any senior technical lead in the field of your choice. You don't know everything but you know you have more knowledge about your field then most the people in the room.

The problem? You have no "experience". Whatever history you had of how you gained your knowledge is gone. Your past is unknown to this new group of people and nothing you say about it makes any sense to them. The only thing that makes sense to them is the knowledge you have of your field.

The obvious answer is to start from the very bottom and spend years fighting your way back up from your pigeonholed existence. But, what other options are there? You know a lot but you have nothing to show for it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#2

Post by staunch »

If you truly have the knowledge and judgement(!) to justify a senior position, regardless of years of experience, you should have no trouble landing such a position.

There may be some companies with biases that will prevent it, but there are plenty of companies that don't care how old you are, what you look like -- just that you're really good at what you do.

But be aware that many people overestimate their abilities or undervalue the judgement that years of experience bring. There's a lot of value in having been around long enough to see things come and go. To have made lots of mistakes and learned valuable lessons. Some people really are so good that they can skip much of that, but it's very rare. The only safe bet is to assume you're not one of those people.

And I wouldn't get too hung up about titles. If someone wants to call you "Junior Dog Walker" but pays you and treats you like you want to be treated then don't worry about it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#3

Post by LarryMade2 »

You would have to be able to demonstrate your experience...

I would think go the showcasing competitive route, hackathons, open source projects, etc. If you can make a spectacular showing there and win the kudos of your peers, that would account for something.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#4

Post by taproot »

staunch wrote: post #2

If you truly have the knowledge and judgement(!) to justify a senior position, regardless of years of experience, you should have no trouble landing such a position. There may be some companies with biases that will prevent it, but there are plenty of companies that don't care how old you are, what you look like -- just that you're really good at what you do. But be aware that many people overestimate their abilities…

The thing about titles is very true often senior or junior means two very different things to different companies in this industry. Just follow the money.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#5

Post by diminium »

staunch wrote: post #2

If you truly have the knowledge and judgement(!) to justify a senior position, regardless of years of experience, you should have no trouble landing such a position. There may be some companies with biases that will prevent it, but there are plenty of companies that don't care how old you are, what you look like -- just that you're really good at what you do. But be aware that many people overestimate their abilities…

How about the pigeonhole effect of linking titles with compensation?

Also, in many places, having the "Junior Dog Walker" outshine the "Lead Dog Walker" can end up being a severe career limiting move. This seems to lead to some hierarchical tensions as many people seem to want their juniors to be juniors and little more but not too much more. How is this countered?

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#7

Post by staunch »

diminium wrote: post #5
staunch wrote: post #2

If you truly have the knowledge and judgement(!) to justify a senior position, regardless of years of experience, you should have no trouble landing such a position. There may be some companies with biases that will prevent it, but there are plenty of companies that don't care how old you are, what you look like -- just that you're really good at what you do. But be aware that many people overestimate their abilities…

How about the pigeonhole effect of linking titles with compensation? Also, in many places, having the "Junior Dog Walker" outshine the "Lead Dog Walker" can end up being a severe career limiting move. This seems to lead to some hierarchical tensions as many people seem to want their juniors to be juniors and little more but not too much more. How is this countered?

There's really no substitute for good leadership. If your boss doesn't rewards and respect you for being awesome then go to a company that does. It's that simple. The good boss might give you a grandiose title or not, it shouldn't matter.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#8

Post by donavanm »

Demonstration is the best path forward. Show, dont tell, your abilities. The rest of my comment assumes this is based on a real life issue.

Youre interviewing at the wrong place, with people you shouldnt work with. When leveling a candidate two things matter, technical knowledge & leadership. Ive literally never heard anyone suggest leveling a candidate based on work history. Experience might affect comp, or indicate retention issues, but it _does not_ affect leveling.

To qualify my argument Ive a decade of experience. Ive been in "senior" roles for the last 4. Ive worked in a couple 4 man llcs, and a couple multi billion dollar tech cos. Ive probably done a hundred interviews, and ive coworkers in the hundreds and thousand range.

Re: Ask HN: How do you get hired for a senior role without "experience"?

#10

Post by diminium »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #9

Well, if it's just a book, if no-one's checking on it. (Which seems implied by the book being all the proof of your past life,) Then I'd go to a print shop and make myself a new book....

Your a newly arrived immigrant from Europe. You wanted to make your fortune in the Americas.

During your journey, your portfolio sank with your ship. You have no contacts in the New World. It would take months to years to gather the letter of recommendations from Europe - that is if they are still there and you remember their address from memory. The other evidence of your work is in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

A historical notion that still has applicability in today's world. Think refugees.

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