Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#1

Post by CptCodeMonkey » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:18 PM UTC

In the space of half a day, vision in my right eye deteriorated to the point that I can't even see an eye exam chart with it. I've already gone to the hospital and going back tomorrow for another round of tests. It's not a tumor, no signs of MS, no signs of infection.

I know they're are people considered legally blind that still write code, so how do they do it? Is there an OS that's better geared for accessibility, and are there any tools that can help make life easier?

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#2

Post by devonbarrett » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

I know this is not about programming, but from what I know the same principal could be applied. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVuLGrab9JA

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#3

Post by kurt_ » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

Hi, when i was in training some time ago, my IT manager was totally blind and use a braille tablet to read its screen. Characters was translated into braille and 'printed' to it's tablet. He has no need for a screen and use a regular keyboard. He also use a screen reader app for emails, internet and documents.

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#4

Post by whichdan » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

Previous discussion & link to an excellent StackOverflow article. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5210648

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#5

Post by varunkho » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

Old thread on this topic: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4058761

SO discussion (linked in thread above as well): http://stackoverflow.com/questions/118984/how-can-you-progra...

In my experience, programming, in general, has nothing to do with sight – its more about how you load the entire application (architecture/design/flow – whatever you may call it) in your head. Great description by PG on this particular phenomenon [0].

As far as accessibility goes, there are blind developers for all the 3 major OS – Mac/Linux/Windows. Basically you use a screen reading application to get speech output and rely on keyboard shortcuts heavily (in GUI environments).

[0]: http://paulgraham.com/head.html

Edit: Ok, let me give you a more realistic picture: yes, every other day could prove to be a challenge especially if you are programming in a gui environment – UIs are designed primarily for visual and pointer interaction; however, being a programmer, you have more tools and techniques at your disposal to find alternative ways of doing things than a basic blind computer user. You should always be exploring and shouldn't give up. That's my learning after having been working as a developer in .NET (web/windows) for 5 years and you know, with every new major release/product, Visual Studio and Windows constantly change and break accessibility support in one way or the other.

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#6

Post by jcr » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 5:45 PM UTC

The two most common methods are "Screen Readers" (audio) [1] and "Braille Displays" (touch) [2]. Depending on the exact vision impairment, other alternatives also exist (magnifiers, customized color/brightness, and so forth).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_braille_display

Good Luck with your situation!

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#7

Post by 4ad » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 6:22 PM UTC

BSDTalk episode with a blind BSD user[1]. It's about many things, not how blind people deal with computers, but it offers some great insights nevertheless.

[1] http://bsdtalk.blogspot.co.at/2008/03/bsdtalk143-bsd-hobbies...

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#8

Post by cowsaysoink » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 6:23 PM UTC

Most people use screen readers because it is much much faster than braille displays. Especially since most blind users speed up the screen reader speech rate very high.

If you are an emacs user check out emacspeak: http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/

Windows there are many options.

NVDA is the most used free one: http://www.nvda-project.org/

JAWS is highly used but expensive: http://www.freedomscientific.com/products/fs/jaws-product-pa...

For mac there is voiceover (included in OSX): http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/

Chrome and ChromeOS have chromvox: http://www.chromevox.com/ but that is more for web.

Linux the most popular is orca for gnome desktop: http://projects.gnome.org/orca/

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#9

Post by 10dpd » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 6:32 PM UTC

Through the use of screen readers and braille displays.

In terms of OS's: OSX has a built in screen reader - Press Command-F5 to activate it, and follow the tutorial for more details.

Chrome has a screen reader called ChromeVox (http://www.chromevox.com)

Windows users have access to NVDA (free), JAWS (paid) or WindowEyes (paid).

EmacSpeak is available for emacs users.

However you'll find that each of these screen readers have a slightly different model that you'll have to learn.

What OS are you currently using? Being able to apply your existing mental model of how the OS works will reduce your learning time exponentially.

Re: Ask HN: How do blind people code and work with terminals?

#10

Post by jankins » Sun, Mar 10, 2013, 6:34 PM UTC

I used to set-up, deliver, & train blind users on Windows machines. Windows is the most popular since it has the most user-friendly accessibility solutions. My dad started the business I worked for, & he's been totally blind since birth. If you want, I'd be more than happy to put you in touch with him, feel free to contact me at dave [at] sweetmansystems [dot] com.

The favorite screen-reader for Windows is Jaws, but Window-Eyes is also good. OSX is great because it comes with a full-featured built-in screen-reader for free, whereas Jaws can run you $900 -- but the OSX screen-reader (called VoiceOver) is generally much more difficult to get started with, as they key combinations are complicated and difficult to remember. If you have enough useful vision, you could also use a program like ZoomText (on Windows), which combines screen magnification with voice output.

I've been looking into screen-readers for Linux & especially the command line, but haven't had enough experience with anything to make a recommendation -- though my dad knows a guy who uses linux & runs servers, if you end up talking to him ask for contact info for a guy named louis, if you can get a hold of him he'd be able to steer you in the right direction.

If you're in the US and in California (I think other countries and states have similar programs), you may want to get in touch with the Department of Rehabilitation, as they can provide a lot of help and information & will also purchase training, accessibility equipment, computers & software in order to get people with visual impairments proficient enough to compete in the classroom & in the job market.

The thing to be prepared for is that it's a major life adjustment. It's a totally different way of interacting with the computer, and it will usually come with a pretty steep learning curve, but it's definitely doable, especially I think with the hacker mindset.

All of these programs have demo versions from their websites: Jaws for Windows: http://www.freedomscientific.com/products/fs/jaws-product-pa... Window-Eyes: http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/ ZoomText: http://www.aisquared.com/zoomtext/

Info about Apple's VoiceOver: http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/ (oh, the other good news is that VoiceOver is also included on all iPhones & iPads!)