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Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

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Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#1

Post by Satam »

SPAs, SSR, typescript, bundlers, transpilers, jamstack, headless CMS, serverless adapters...

But where is all that complexity going? Most websites and web apps I encounter are no better than they were 10 years ago. Sure, they look better, but that's largely orthogonal. There's maybe a bit more interactivity but it's still basic CRUD most of the time. They break the same, sometimes even more.

It seems like chasing marginal improvements in dev and user experience leads to complexity which begets even more complexity.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#2

Post by PaulHoule »

I would say that the evolution of React has slowed down and build tools are in a state of consolidation. Compare development with the abandoned CRA to Vite.

I felt that way about front end end work when I got a FT job working on a React system about 5 years ago but now I don’t feel overwhelmed at all.

The way people talk about it is intimidating though. The average person who wants to make a modern blog should probably host it in Azure or AWS object storage with a generator like Hugo or Pelican. Hugo in particular is zero bullshit if you don’t need to customize it, it is just a simple binary that doesn’t require you to learn anything about go or how people resolve dependencies in go or go build systems. I picked Pelican because it is written in Python and I know I can make it do whatever I want. When I send people to

https://jamstack.org/generators/

It is like waving a red flag in front of a bull in terms of eliciting the reaction of feeling overwhelmed.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#4

Post by abraxas »

There are people who are trying to strip away that complexity. FastHTML and HTMX are showing the direction of where the wind is blowing in my opinion.

Now the fact that it looks and feels almost like a new flavor of JSP is another matter. I think the HATEOAS model was tried tested and true and just needed a bit more refinement rather than the total overhaul that SPAs+JSON APIs brought in.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#6

Post by PaulHoule »

abraxas wrote: post #4

There are people who are trying to strip away that complexity. FastHTML and HTMX are showing the direction of where the wind is blowing in my opinion. Now the fact that it looks and feels almost like a new flavor of JSP is another matter. I think the HATEOAS model was tried tested and true and just needed a bit more refinement rather than the total overhaul that SPAs+JSON APIs brought in.

I don’t think HATEOAS is harmful but acronyms like it contribute to the feeling of overwhelm.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#9

Post by abraxas »

PaulHoule wrote: post #6
abraxas wrote: post #4

There are people who are trying to strip away that complexity. FastHTML and HTMX are showing the direction of where the wind is blowing in my opinion. Now the fact that it looks and feels almost like a new flavor of JSP is another matter. I think the HATEOAS model was tried tested and true and just needed a bit more refinement rather than the total overhaul that SPAs+JSON APIs brought in.

I don’t think HATEOAS is harmful but acronyms like it contribute to the feeling of overwhelm.

That's fair. I think being in this ecosystem makes us forget how much implied knowledge we assume from the audience.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#10

Post by cornholio »

Sure, web apps 10 years ago looked and worked largely the same as current ones, but they were usually monolithic and custom mountains of JS which were difficult to write, deploy and maintain. Few organizations could deploy something like Gmail.

So a good chunk of this emerging complexity tries to improve web developer productivity (at the cost of stack complexity and fragility). It's the infamous indirection treadmill, laser focused on a single thing: overall productivity and fast delivery of the final product by low skilled employees.

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