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Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

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Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#1
Hey all, I wanted to make this thread to hopefully spark a discussion about junior / entry-level developers and starting a career in software engineering (post-Covid).

Here's the problem, and what I wanted to start a discussion about: After over 300 applications, I haven't even landed a single interview. I know this is a pain that many other new grads have faced and are still facing, and I want to hear other programmers' stories, anecdotes, inputs and opinions on this, whether you're a senior dev with over 10 years' experience, or a new grad like me.

For some context, I've been using computers since as long as I can remember, my parents worked in tech my entire life, and I "started" coding around 12 years ago in highschool. I wrote "started" in quotations because it was about as much as you can learn from a highschool-level program from the year 2012-onwards on the subject of programming; I'm talking pure HTML/CSS/JS, some Java and a bit of C#.

Since then, I've continued to work on projects here and there but I never took programming seriously, that is, until about a year and a half ago. I had originally settled onto a career path I thought I wanted (Audio Engineering), but after graduating, I quickly realized that it was not a path I wanted to follow. Most of my friends are programmers, and I had previous experience with it, so I chose to go with something that had pretty much circled me my entire life: Technology, more specifically, Software Development. I applied to an intensive (1 year) AEC program, and it was during that course that I quickly found out that I love programming. I also found out that I learned the subjects very easily (who knew that learning about things you're passionate about could be so effective!) and so I started studying on my own, and working on personal projects early on in the course. I graduated with honor role in February of this year, and I now have many personal projects that I've worked on, an artistic portfolio hosted on my domain and honestly, a pretty good Github profile for a junior dev. I've gotten extremely familiar with frontend languages and frameworks, SQL databases and ORMs, and quite familiar with building computer/mobile applications (Java, Kotlin, Swift, etc). Since last year, I likely average around 8-9 hours a day coding projects, practicing on hackerrank and leetcode, or studying programming on my own time.

I feel like despite my lack of experience, I've done so much in just a year that I consider impressive, and I feel unable to express this employers because I can't seem to get a single interview. I've gone to job fairs, applied on every single website there is, and I can't seem to succeed. It feels like all those 10-14 hour coding sessions filled with passion and hope that I destroyed my mental health over in order to land a job after graduating were all for naught, and the weight of that realization is starting to feel absolutely crushing. I tell myself, "at least if I was able to land interviews, the rejections mean there's room for improvement", but since I can't land any, it means the problem is elsewhere and I just can't figure out what. Are my applications even reaching human recruiters, or is it AI rejecting me automatically? Who knows.. When I apply, it feels like I'm just hoping for a miracle that I can even reach somebody I can speak to and get to prove myself as a developer.

To any developers who have ever asked themselves "Is it the industry or is it me?", what are your thoughts on that question? If you're an established developer now, was it the industry, or your mindset, or both? What changed?

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#2
>I feel like despite my lack of experience,

find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much other noise.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#3

>I feel like despite my lack of experience, find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much ot…

This is a hard way to go, unless you are really very confident in your skills.

OP, I would recommend trying to reach out directly for referrals on LinkedIn instead if you are not already. That will at least make it likely your resume will get looked at. It is correct that you have a visibility problem, not a skills one.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#4

>I feel like despite my lack of experience, find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much ot…

I managed to stumble across my first contribution to a popular open source project about 2 months ago but haven't actively looked for one since. It could be worthwhile to take another look, but it's hard to not feel the imposter syndrome.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#5
post #3

>I feel like despite my lack of experience, find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much ot…

This is a hard way to go, unless you are really very confident in your skills. OP, I would recommend trying to reach out directly for referrals on LinkedIn instead if you are not already. That will at least make it likely your resume will get looked at. It is correct that you have a visibility problem, not a skills one.

Thank you for the advice.

I've done that a few times for jobs i was particularly excited to apply for, but didn't think about it from the perspective you mentioned. I'll definitely do that from now on.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#6
post #3

>I feel like despite my lack of experience, find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much ot…

This is a hard way to go, unless you are really very confident in your skills. OP, I would recommend trying to reach out directly for referrals on LinkedIn instead if you are not already. That will at least make it likely your resume will get looked at. It is correct that you have a visibility problem, not a skills one.

OP states that they have gone through "After over 300 applications, I haven't even landed a single interview." This may be a "hard" way to go, but it is certainly a way to consider to prove yourself. You can reach out directly for referrals but not just can anyone do that, you have people who game the system with AI which adds to the noise (I can imagine a simple system with Large Language Model and a Large Action Model could be easily setup to repeat the process to request referrals on LinkedIn). Not everyone can create immediate value and this isn't something obvious to consider and why I suggest OP to do so.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#7
The industry see your CV, your git repo and your portfolio, if you don't have a second call in 300 applications it means either you're talking to the wrong people regarding your profile, or your profile is not appealing and work need to be done.

I did an incomplete thesis on a niche research subject, traveled for month, switched to the industry now and even with that not so attractive profile from an industry POV, I was able to get second calls. But I'm not a dev, so maybe dev market is saturated idk.

edit: after looking at your CV, I can confirm that you could change some things such as:

- emphasize your projects, they are less promoted than your professional experiences yet they are more important!

- missing softskills, human ressources will look at it. Even basic things like "teamwork" or "dynamic" is worth to mention.

- ideally, every skills should appear inside a project too.

- Change or remove first sentence. change "always had passion", it's not true as you saiid in your post. Trade passion for motivation in any case. Add one where you say what you are looking for in your new job. Adapt it to the company eventually.

- Jobs details could be shorter as they are not related to the actual position you're looking for. Remember, only put usefull information.

- Do you have license driving? Also add your current location and mobility (obviously not in the public version)

I hope it will help you and that you'll land your first interview soon.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#8
I've worked in the IT industry (Sydney AU) for decades. It has never been this bad in getting work/contracts. Unless you score 10/10 on the keyword bingo, you won't even get a phone call back. For every contract I have applied for, there were 100+ other applicants.

I had a look at your CV. There's nothing there to catch tech recruiter's attention. For example you could recast your various projects in terms of what you deliver as a benefit to a potential employer. Going remote is generally only viable if you have specific valued skills to offer.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#9
It's rough right now, we've been in a funding lull for years.

A lot of the more experienced developers (mid-millennial age) entered their careers riding the wave of the invention of smartphones and social media not to mention modern web, games, advertising, etc. There was so much work and funding to do the work.

The world changed after the Obama years, funding was largely yanked out of tech, except for self-funded types and hype cycles like crypto and AI. Most of tech sort of merged with "status quo" work - it's not special anymore. Most companies don't budget that much for engineers, or any staff.

There's a chance it will bounce back - I can't imagine Netflix is going to just let us have something like:

  output a Tarantino film set in a cyberpunk future starring Bruce Willis and Uma Thurman in their prime with a cameo from Ariana Grande who plays the crime lord's daughter 
Without putting up a fight. So I believe it's worth holding out hope that there will be another "boom" very soon where companies are scrambling and hiring engineers like crazy again - that is, I think AI models show some promise disruption-wise.

For now, it's self-funded egomaniac founders and boring work for low pay. There's no advice I can give you on interviewing other than it's a numbers game. Every company gets like 1000+ applicants right now, it's ridiculous. You have to know somebody.

Re: Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?

#10
post #3

>I feel like despite my lack of experience, find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much ot…

This is a hard way to go, unless you are really very confident in your skills. OP, I would recommend trying to reach out directly for referrals on LinkedIn instead if you are not already. That will at least make it likely your resume will get looked at. It is correct that you have a visibility problem, not a skills one.

Even with skills there's more than meets the eye to contributing to FOSS. You usually have to be in their Discord, have survived their mods long enough for people to appreciate your presence and help you provide.

To get a PR in you have to be pretty actively using the project and be lucky enough to spot an issue worth fixing. Either that or you're going through Issues trying to find something important enough that someone isn't working on.

Let's say you find the thing, you fork the repo (because you aren't on the team) make the change, open the PR, then it's back to Discord trying to get someone to look at the PR. Sometimes a miracle happens and they approve the PR, but you still aren't allowed to merge it, gotta usually bother them one last time to merge it.

Worth it if it's a project you use all the time and you truly understand the codebase, I do this all the time with stuff I use, but nearly impossible if you're an outsider just trying to get a PR merged on something you don't use especially in a well-known repo.

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