Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#1

Post by gautambay » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 1:05 AM UTC

Hoping to spark an insightful discussion on the how advances in AI will impact the demand for entry-level software engineers, and the nature of that job.

Some prompts to consider:

1. If you work in software engineering, what changes are you observing today, either to the SWE job itself, and/or to demand for entry-level SWE roles?

2. How do you see the entry-level SWE job evolving in 1, 2 and 3 years? Fewer/no roles? Different job description? Something else?

3. How will the pace of change vary across industries? E.g. I imagine SWE at Google is quite different from SWE at Liberty Mutual.

Please consider stating your current role and/or any experiences that have shaped your perspective (e.g. "Engineering leader at a Fortune 500 non-tech company", "recent CS grad", "AI researcher", etc.)

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#2

Post by throwawaysleep » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 1:16 AM UTC

Both my jobs have indefinitely axed co-op and new grad roles due to Co-pilot.

It isn’t just AI, as entry level people have always been poor value, but at this point we basically just want entry level to be a favour for employee’s kids.

I’m an overemployed Senior SDE, one at a unicorn and one at a generic company.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#3

Post by gautambay » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 1:33 AM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

Both my jobs have indefinitely axed co-op and new grad roles due to Co-pilot. It isn’t just AI, as entry level people have always been poor value, but at this point we basically just want entry level to be a favour for employee’s kids. I’m an overemployed Senior SDE, one at a unicorn and one at a generic company.

Thanks! Appreciate the data points and insight.

Do you have a perspective on whether this will exacerbate the shortage of senior engineers in a few years, if way fewer new people enter the profession in that time period? Or will it be okay since the need for humans will reduce commensurately?

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#4

Post by aurareturn » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 1:52 AM UTC

I'm going to make an optimistic and contrarian prediction: there will be even more jobs for software engineers in the future.

Current companies will hire fewer new grads and layoff older engineers. However, I believe AI will make it far cheaper for new software companies to develop their products. Therefore, we will have more software companies spring up. Those companies will in turn, hire more software engineers.

For example, let's say there are 10 total software companies today employing 100 employees each for a total of 1,000 software engineers employed. In the near future, I can see 100 software companies employing 12 engineers for a total of 1,200 software engineers. The net will be 200 engineers.

We will see an explosion in software products - some software fields will have more competitors due to the lower cost of creating an alternative and we will see brand new software fields spring up because it's now economically feasible to do them.

However, I think new grads that can make efficient use AI in developing software will be in very high demand - even today. Those who can't will have a hard time getting hired. Same for current software devs.

I believe that the reason we don't see this in 2024 yet is because of high interest rates and we are in a transition period. I can see the field getting very hot again in 2025/2026.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#5

Post by getToTheChopin » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:14 AM UTC

Prompt engineering will become an important skill -- i.e., finding the right words and ways to harness the power of generative AI.

Learning to stitch together AI tools (using the output from one tool as an input into another tool) seems like it will be in demand as well.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#6

Post by gautambay » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

getToTheChopin wrote: post #5

Prompt engineering will become an important skill -- i.e., finding the right words and ways to harness the power of generative AI. Learning to stitch together AI tools (using the output from one tool as an input into another tool) seems like it will be in demand as well.

The point about stitching together resonates.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#7

Post by throwawaysleep » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:28 AM UTC

gautambay wrote: post #6

getToTheChopin wrote: post #5

Prompt engineering will become an important skill -- i.e., finding the right words and ways to harness the power of generative AI. Learning to stitch together AI tools (using the output from one tool as an input into another tool) seems like it will be in demand as well.

The point about stitching together resonates.

Plumbing is already a ton of software engineering jobs.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#8

Post by fragmede » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:31 AM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #7

gautambay wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point about stitching together resonates.

Plumbing is already a ton of software engineering jobs.

for better or worse, we're going to become digital secretaries rather than digital plumbers, duty bound to interact with LLMs and take notes on their behalf.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#9

Post by throwawaysleep » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:33 AM UTC

gautambay wrote: post #3

throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

Both my jobs have indefinitely axed co-op and new grad roles due to Co-pilot. It isn’t just AI, as entry level people have always been poor value, but at this point we basically just want entry level to be a favour for employee’s kids. I’m an overemployed Senior SDE, one at a unicorn and one at a generic company.

Thanks! Appreciate the data points and insight. Do you have a perspective on whether this will exacerbate the shortage of senior engineers in a few years, if way fewer new people enter the profession in that time period? Or will it be okay since the need for humans will reduce commensurately?

Exacerbate unless the tools get much better.

Really, I don’t think they fully replaced the juniors as only some of the job is code generation. A lot of basic support and edge case handling is falling on the intermediates who often now aren’t producing much of anything due to the support burden. Many of them are dissatisfied.

Re: Ask HN: What is the future of the entry-level software engineering job?

#10

Post by aeionotyou » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:54 AM UTC

If entry-level software jobs are being eliminated by AI or other means, how will people gain the experience necessary to become more senior developers?