Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#1

Post by apollo_mojave » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 11:22 AM UTC

For years, I had cable internet and purchased my own modem to use along with my own router, main reason being I don't trust my ISP to handle my personal information with discretion and I'd like to limit my dependence on their hardware as much as possible.

Now I've moved and I have fiber, which is great, except it seems I have to rely entirely on the fiber equivalent of a "modem," which I believe is the "ONT."

My question is: why? Why was / is there a fairly well-developed market for modems where consumers can choose their own hardware, whereas for fiber there is almost no market for ONTs? Is it for a technical reason? Or do ISPs want to be able to get cheaply manufactured ONTs and pass along "rental fees" to consumers?

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#2

Post by stop50 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 11:38 AM UTC

For fiber you can make your own. The modem transforms the light signal into electric, the protocols are open, routing is also an solved problem.the biggest problem are the isps themself that hide credentials and any self serving method away.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#3

Post by toast0 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT.

I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#4

Post by moronix » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 5:20 PM UTC

For the most part, I believe it is all about the management and troubleshooting ability from the ISP side. You can buy ONT devices, but I think that the OLT device of the ISP must support the one you bought, which really defeats the purpose of buying it. There are even SFP modules that can work as an ONT interface.

Really your best bet is to ask your ISP if they can bridge a port on the ONT so you can use your own router after that without double NAT. In this scenario the ONT will be functioning mainly as a media converter.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#5

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:47 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #3

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT. I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#6

Post by vel0city » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:48 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #3

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT. I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

I've been on AT&T's internet for well over a decade and I've never had a rental cost line item on my bill for their gateway. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's modeled into their pricing, but so is the ONT and all the rest of their hardware. It's never been a line item in my bill.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#7

Post by nicolaslem » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:50 PM UTC

> main reason being I don't trust my ISP to handle my personal information with discretion.

Surely if the ISP wanted to do something nefarious, they could do it in the next equipment in line that doesn't sit in the customer's house. Anything before the customer's own router is the Internet where nothing should be trusted. Whether the modem belongs to the customer or the ISP doesn't really change that.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#8

Post by tiffanyh » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:51 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #3

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT. I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

I had AT&T Fiber installed last year, for me at least it was still two separate boxes.

But you have me curious now to see if I can get it as a single piece of equipment. Especially since I have my ONT installed inside the house (which is less common as you indicate).

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#9

Post by epcoa » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:52 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #3

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT. I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

That "modem" is usually just called a router or residential gateway, as it is just plain Ethernet, WLAN tied together with some low cost SoC running Linux, in other words just like any other Wifi router you can pick up at a big box store. In AT&T's case, the keys were a cinch to pull from the device and you can run openwrt or pfsense or whatever on your own hardware, you don't even need to use it. Calling it a modem confuses the issue.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#10

Post by madjam002 » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

A good fibre ISP will have a separate ONT and router, so you can still pick your own router.

The ONT should be considered part of the ISPs network and not tampered with or replaced. Fibre with an ONT (PON) is a shared medium with other customers, and trying to use your own equipment has the possibility of degrading service for other customers.