I've been looking for work the past few months. I've never been great at the people-networking side of the software engineering business but know enough people to get some good referrals from Staff Engineer / Director level former coworkers. Despite meeting all the requirements, and being referred by a current employee...I'm just getting simple rejection emails. Previously I thought of referrals as a great signal that someone was good candidate and was worth at least a phone call. Is that no longer the case?
Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
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Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#2[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#3No, you shouldn't generalize from a few examples. A good referral will get your CV in front of the hiring manager, skipping the screening and HR process. If you just get permission to put someone's name on the application that may not count for much. You should ask your contacts to get you on the short list so you bypass at least some of the hiring funnel.
Right now the job market for more junior people looks brutal -- too many people with little experience and the same "skills" mix chasing a reduced number of jobs. If you are still early in your career you will find job hunting tough right now regardless of contacts and referrals.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#4They are not worthless at all, at my company if you get a referral you will skip the phone interview and go right to in-person, and you're going to get called about it.
When we are hiring.
There is the rub, there are a number of companies that are either actively laying off, or just letting attrition nibble down their numbers without having to announce layoffs.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#5Depends 100% on the company you're referring into. The larger the company, the less personal it tends to be. Conversely, if the "current employee" is a leader with hiring authority and the referral will be hired onto their team, the more personal it tends to be.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#6If people just go for the best people in the world then one man will marry all the women in the world
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#7I referred maybe thirty people to Stripe and I think maybe two of them got interviews. Nobody got an offer. At Uber, zero of my referrals were followed up on. At Box, I don't remember any referrals getting followed up on.
I won't say they're worthless, but don't feel bad that you are getting the response that you are. Nearly every place I've been (and lots of places that friends are at) do an abysmal job of following up on referrals and taking them seriously.
That said, you might want to ask a trusted friend to look at your online presence (LinkedIn, GitHub) and offer some critical feedback. It may simply be the case that—despite being well qualified—you don't look that way to recruiters following up on what amounts to a ticket in a queue.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#8Actual referrals for specific needs are useful. Letters of recommendation are variably useful, but not warm intros.
Social media-based "networking" in the industry has limited utility. I was 1-2nd degree on LI from most of Silicon Valley but with 100's of people I never talk to.
You're barking up the wrong trees combining outbound effort that has much less value, especially if it's untargeted or unfocused. In general, it's better to market yourself and let the hiring managers and headhunters find you. Although, it's entirely possible to replace the role of the headhunters if you market and convey useful business value you present to prospective employers: a cover letter exists to sell a resume to sell a phone call and so on.
If you're trying to network for work, I would check out hot and interesting tech meetups.
Remember, it's sales and dating, and therefore, a numbers and interest game.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#9They are not worthless at all, at my company if you get a referral you will skip the phone interview and go right to in-person, and you're going to get called about it. When we are hiring. There is the rub, there are a number of companies that are either actively laying off, or just letting attrition nibble down their numbers without having to announce layoffs.
> or just letting attrition nibble down their numbers without having to announce layoffs.
When you say it like that it sounds mean, but it's a pretty civilized way to handle downsizing if you ask me.
Re: Ask HN: Are job referrals worthless now?
#10[deleted]