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Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

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Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#1
This is something of a rant, but I would greatly appreciate your reflections as it's a subject that is very confusing for me. Many of you are much smarter than I am, so any thoughts you have around this would be appreciated!

People recently have been positing that the big bang occurred as result of a black hole (i.e. black hole sucks up more and more material, gains more mass, until it explodes in a big bang into a new universe).

My question is, if this is the case, is there (1) another universe "above"? And is there another universe "above" that eternally? Or is it (2) more the case that our existing universe expands, it reaches an edge of maximum expansion, and a gravity-like counter force causes it to collapse in on itself, until it again repeats the big bang process (eternal recurrence)?

Take the first example. If the conditions at the bottom of two black hole "singularity"s are the same - you would expect parallel, equal universes to be generated each time. Copies of the same universe generated over and over again with each black hole. If the conditions were slightly different (i.e. one black hole has slightly more quarks than another), you might have a "parallelish" universe arise where with slightly different initial conditions you experience vastly different results (chaos theory, small changes in initial conditions).

If the second were true, given no energy / mass would be leaving the system, you'd expect the same situation to recur eternally. The "universe" as we experience it would be bounded on one side in time by the "singularity" and on another side in time by the "edge" (the point of maximum expansion) creating a fixed, spatiotemporal object. Why does this spatiotemporal universe marble exist and what exists outside of it?

I can't wrap my head around this. Which scenario is more likely? Does any of this make any sense? If the answer is "we don't know", do you think there is a way to ever answer these questions?

It seems like we're trapped in some sort of strange, fractalian experiment.

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#2
PBS Space Time [1] have many videos on various theories about this if you have some time to kill. I tend to lean towards the possibility that I am in the video game "Roy" [2]

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/@pbsspacetime/search?query=black%20h...

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_QCIhSHLs

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#3

PBS Space Time [1] have many videos on various theories about this if you have some time to kill. I tend to lean towards the possibility that I am in the video game "Roy" [2] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/@pbsspacetime/search?query=black%20h... [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_QCIhSHLs

Thank you for your feedback! I'll definitely check these out. The whole "simulation theory" thing seems to be a fun idea. Are we living in a petri dish experiment aimed at finding an optimal outcome? An experiment where life situations are generated many times with slight variants to examine all possible outcomes in "universe" life simulations?

The jump from matter / elements to RNA also doesn't make sense to me - so maybe there's a drop in the petri dish to explain life arising from nothing.

It's overwhelmingly mysterious & confusing :(

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#4

PBS Space Time [1] have many videos on various theories about this if you have some time to kill. I tend to lean towards the possibility that I am in the video game "Roy" [2] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/@pbsspacetime/search?query=black%20h... [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_QCIhSHLs

Your first link and one of the videos there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeRgFqbBM5E) was a huge relief and interesting dive into the q - thanks again for sending it.

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#5

PBS Space Time [1] have many videos on various theories about this if you have some time to kill. I tend to lean towards the possibility that I am in the video game "Roy" [2] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/@pbsspacetime/search?query=black%20h... [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_QCIhSHLs

Thank you for your feedback! I'll definitely check these out. The whole "simulation theory" thing seems to be a fun idea. Are we living in a petri dish experiment aimed at finding an optimal outcome? An experiment where life situations are generated many times with slight variants to examine all possible outcomes in "universe" life simulations? The jump from matter / elements to RNA also doesn't make sense to me - so…

The simulation theory is not very satisfying. It might answer some of the questions we have but leaves a much bigger one: who/what/how made this simulation?

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#7

the universe just expands, then contracts due to gravity into a single black hole, explodes (big bang), and we start again

Yes, that was my case (2). Spatiotemporal marble bounded by big bang and expansion edge. But it's not very satisfying - what is outside? Why?

It does align w/ the "eternal recurrence" concept.

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your feedback! I'll definitely check these out. The whole "simulation theory" thing seems to be a fun idea. Are we living in a petri dish experiment aimed at finding an optimal outcome? An experiment where life situations are generated many times with slight variants to examine all possible outcomes in "universe" life simulations? The jump from matter / elements to RNA also doesn't make sense to me - so…

The simulation theory is not very satisfying. It might answer some of the questions we have but leaves a much bigger one: who/what/how made this simulation?

I agree - and why?

My fun answer for this one is that there is a future civilization facing collapse / extinction / "great filter" and they're (humans or AI) running infinite life simulations to try to determine what actions will give them the greatest probability of escape / survival. We're living in one of those simulated worlds. But that's very human / AI centric, and doesn't answer any of the same questions higher up. Maybe they know.

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#9

the universe just expands, then contracts due to gravity into a single black hole, explodes (big bang), and we start again

There's no evidence that this is the case, especially with the knowledge that the rate of expansion is increasing over time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_expansion_of_the_...

Re: Ask HN: Is it black holes all the way up?

#10

the universe just expands, then contracts due to gravity into a single black hole, explodes (big bang), and we start again

And this has been going on for ages and we simply are universe X in time.

Alternative hypothesis the OP seems to refer to is the one of Lee Smolin in which a black hole from a previous universe creates a new universe. Smolin wrote a book about his theory, The Life of the Cosmos. I haven't read it nor do I know / understand his theory fully, so interested to learn others viewpoint on this theory.

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