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Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

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Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#1
Many countries', including the United States, central banks are trying to figure out Central Bank Digital Currency (CDBC). This move has accelerated after China introduced its digital currency (e-CNY).

But why do we need a digital currency when most of my transactions (presumably true for most people in a modern economy) is digital? I receive my salary via a bank transfer, make payments in grocery stores via credit cards, deposit checks via my phone by taking pictures of them, and split restaurant bills via Zelle. All that is digital - no cash is involved. Explain to me like I am 5 - What problem does a digital currency solve that is not solved by electronic (digital) transfer mechanisms of existing fiat money?

Links - US Federal Reserve working paper on CDBC https://www.federalreserve.gov/central-bank-digital-currency.htm - European Central Bank on digital currency https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/digital_euro/html/index.en.html - Details on Chinese e-CNY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#2
Normal bank accounts are on the books of the commercial banks. That requires a deposit insurance scheme to make those deposits "money good". Otherwise you end up being an unwitting investor in the bank and subject to losing some or all of your deposit if the bank lends badly.

A digital currency, at least in the terms generally discussed by central banks at the sharp end, moves your bank account to the books of the central bank, so it is always money good without the need for a deposit insurance system. The commercial bank then operates it as agent rather than principal.

There's some other stuff to do with anonymity and quite a lot of hype about distributed ledgers and the like, but largely that is all just marketing BS. The conflict between Money Laundering/Proceeds of Crime tracking requirements and Privacy laws generally stop bearer tokens in their tracks. Bearer Tokens being the direct electronic equivalent of our current folding stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#3
Practically, it will make little or no difference to you.

Currently, central banks manage money supply by managing currency transfers to commercial banks and via managing the amount of cash in circulation. The commercial bank transfers are (almost) all digital. Cash, obviously, isn't.

There is reasonable reason to assume that cash will become less and less prevalent as digital payment flows become more ingrained. So central banks are looking at mechanisms to replace/supplement their retail money supply mechanism ie cash, with one that makes more sense for a more digital economy.

So, many central banks have been exploring digit fiat currencies, how they could be implemented, implications etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#4
Government can track all money and its flows better. Can give directly to citizens without needing banks as middlemen. Can give money that “expires” - must be spent quickly to goose the economy and disappears if someone tries to save it. Can completely lock a person out of the economic system if the government doesn’t like them.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#5
I think the answer is in your question: All forms of money you currently use online (bank-transfer, Zelle, credit card, etc.) are owned and operated by private entities. None of them are public money like cash is, backed by the central bank.

CBDC is intended to be a digital equivalent of cash, so that people have a public money option for digital purchases. It could mean anything from everyone having an account at the central bank to a card holding value that you can get from someone and tap to your phone to order an Uber.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#7
One goal of e-CNY is to be an alternative to USD payment systems like SWIFT which the Western governments hve used to enforced sanctions.

China has a problem with the regular currency has a lot of restrictions on it. People can't just trade CNY for USD or something else because there are controls to prevent this. China wants e-CNY to be a platform for Chinese trade also third parties outside the USD umbrella, eg Brazil with Nigeria or Venezuela trading with Iran. I dont honestly know how that is possible to do both CNY with restrictions and e-CNY which is open, but its definitely important to China and much of the world. https://www.scmp.com/economy/global-economy/article/3191393/...

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#8
post #3

Practically, it will make little or no difference to you. Currently, central banks manage money supply by managing currency transfers to commercial banks and via managing the amount of cash in circulation. The commercial bank transfers are (almost) all digital. Cash, obviously, isn't. There is reasonable reason to assume that cash will become less and less prevalent as digital payment flows become more ingrained. So…

> Practically, it will make little or no difference to you.

So when the fed reserve decides inflation is too high because they printed too much money and kept interest rates low- instead of trying to "soften the labor market"/drive unemployment up and more people into poverty - with a digital currency, they can simply zap your money away. No need for financial "austerity" for the poor's to endure. What could go wrong?

This doesn't get to the social credit scores we see in use in China, and how a solely digital currency lends power to that system. We are already doing it to the market with ESG scores, wait til you have an ESG score for your personal life.

But I'm just a guy that thinks that the federal reserve just needs to be abolished. It's just a clever mechanism to ensure that monetary system doesn't let the wealth spread out too much. It's all done through cycles of recessions and booms, where they take wealth from the pockets of poor people and hand it to the ultra wealthy to consolidate more assets.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#9
A CBDC system would radically simplify the current system of intermediaries approving/checking/extracting-fee/etc shifting 0 and 1 from one digital ledger to another [e.g. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/sdp20...]. Under CDBC a person has open account only with a single 'independent federal/global bank', making it the only liability to government not a private institution (technically Fed would is private institution, but that is topic on its own).

The abolition of an analogue payment system (cash) is from the first principles a tragic idea regardless of the actual implementation mechanism, despite the few pros one can but forward in this argument. The system with CBDC can make money have an 'expiration date' ! This is not a theoretical construct, but its discussed as a way to 'manage' economy (and private individuals). Inflation, spending, propping up economy is fully in the hands of a government entity and can be matter of coordinating policies and laws. This alone, this principle goes against all the progress of modern times from Babylon. The opportunity for tyranny (not used lightly) under such system is limitless (I will not enumerate it here, Im just outlining an argument on a important and complex issue).

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#10
The short answer is we don't. The main issue we have now is that all the transfer mechanism are private and rent seeking. Most of the world has instant peer-to-peer digital transfer of money that is immediately in your bank. The FedNow is one upcoming program to end around the private interests.

People also seem to forget that banks do serve several key purposes (in addition to their anti-consumer and rent-seeking behaviors) that I don't think any central bank wants to be in the business of dealing with.

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