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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#1
My wife (hotel management), our 6 month old son and myself (CS, software, hardware + business consulting) need to leave Berlin and Germany. Everything in Germany and especially Berlin eroded to a point, where we don’t want to stand it no more - meaningless to get into the details but quality of life, politics, social life, social net and tax situation just reached their 30 year low.

Our main goal is quality of life for all of us, so it should be a country w/o cold winters, possibly an island close to the equator. I’d appreciate, if I found a tech position, that allows us to buy / rent a quality house (which is close to impossible in Berlin even making 200k/year [due to neck breaking tax and cost of living]).

Getting along with English is a must. The same goes for the possibility of getting work visa. I also consider working remote for a EU / US company and just move to a nice place, but I’d love to hear your personal story, recommendations or ideas.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#3
I'm not the biggest expert in this area but sounds like Portugal is popular with this demographic. It might be able to meet a lot of your requirements.

Outside of that then the world is your oyster. The world is a big beautiful place and if you work in tech you're only limited by your own imagination.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#4
Sorry to hear that you need to leave your country. It's never easy. I left Italy in 2008, in search for opportunities (AWS), then left the US in 2020, back to Italy.

What made you leave Berlin, if you don't mind sharing a bit more?

Finding the right place is always a compromise. E.g. :

1) quality of schools for your son (eventually; he's still super young)

2) VISA, how easy it is to get a permanent resident, and/or citizenship

3) Island close to the equator: the weather is usually not that great (source: lived in Singapore, an island close to the equator, for 2.5 years). But picking the right "type" of place is important, and I suggest you take a 1-month long vacation in 2-3 places, if you can afford it, to "test" it and see if you like it.

Still on this point, I think that most "north Europeans" enjoy the mediterranean area (Portugal, Spain, Italy, or even Greece). Have you tried it out?

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#5
Unfortunately in Europe there aren’t many options if seek reasonable taxation.

The challenge with Islands near the equator are the natural disasters.

Have you considered Asia, or even the south of Europe? Portugal maybe?

I have a friend who moved from The Netherlands to very small town in France. He was mostly seeking quality of life for him and his family.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#6
You are more or less describing the Canary Islands.

You can live there talking English only, and there will be probably opportunities of work for your wife (that should however learn to speak at least functional Spanish).

Remote working for you, however, I don't think there is much occupation related to your field.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#7

Sorry to hear that you need to leave your country. It's never easy. I left Italy in 2008, in search for opportunities (AWS), then left the US in 2020, back to Italy. What made you leave Berlin, if you don't mind sharing a bit more? Finding the right place is always a compromise. E.g. : 1) quality of schools for your son (eventually; he's still super young) 2) VISA, how easy it is to get a permanent resident, and/or c…

Just providing a cautious view: living on an island sounds like a fantasy but in practice it's very isolating, many supply chain issues and it can be hard/expensive to get a hold of items produced off the island

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#8
This is a question I've often asked myself - albeit from in the US rather than from Germany. While I cannot answer your specific question, I can at least tell you where I landed after asking myself the same question.

> quality of life, politics, social life, social net and tax situation just reached their 30 year low.

I first recognized that this trend was not restricted only to where I live. And so you recognize that this is not about fleeing your location specifically, and is moreso about fleeing a set of conditions that exist in many places and looking for a location that is not characterized by these conditions. The difference I think is important.

Second, I recognized that these conditions are temporal - that is to say that they were not always the case and need not necessarily always be the case in the future. Furthermore, a location without these conditions today is not guaranteed to be free of these conditions in the future. And so any change of location could very well be just temporary - I might need to move again in some X num of years.

Third, when you look at for example Californians fleeing the state and moving to places like Austin, TX - bringing along with them ideologies that are anathema to that of the legacy population, you recognize that it is not just geography that defines the conditions of where one lives, but to a greater degree the people who are living there.

Putting this all together, I arrived at the conclusion that fleeing could at best be a temporary solution and that I would be better served by building relationships in my local community which would produce a higher quality of life for my family. The way you push back on the trend is to re-establish your roots with your people, your nation, and its history. Fleeing will only result in greater isolation and disconnectedness from those around you.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#9
post #2

Both the UK and especially the US are going through a rough spot. I would look into Ireland (not so warm climate) or English speaking Asia (maybe insane property prices in tier 1 cities).

UK and Ireland have mild winters compared to Berlin, not that I'd suggest moving to the UK (for other reasons).

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#10
post #6

You are more or less describing the Canary Islands. You can live there talking English only, and there will be probably opportunities of work for your wife (that should however learn to speak at least functional Spanish). Remote working for you, however, I don't think there is much occupation related to your field.

Are Spanish taxes lower than German?
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