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Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

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Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#1

Post by makedecisions »

I'm losing my mind over a luxury problem: Currently a PhD student in the south of Germany. A few month ago, I went through a difficult phase in life and suddenly considered not going for an industry career and missing out on the money to be a huge mistake. So I started to shop around for offers and recently got hit up with a very generous Junior SWE offer: 115k TC (currently 55k).

However, in the meantime I was also able to find my motivation again for continuing the PhD. My main project is dealing with the application of computer vision and deep learning. While not overly excited about the specific topic, I appreciate the freedom, the intellectually challenging work, even teaching. Most of all, I enjoy to really become an expert in a domain.

I'm completely lost on how to proceed now: My stomach feeling is to decline the offer. It is in an unrelated field, so I'd have to give up on deep learning which sucks a lot. However, it is also a fantastic salary for Germany. I'm waking up at night sweating bullets about giving up so much money, missing out on the kick-start of an industry career. But I'm also sweating bullets about not working in machine learning anymore. I've already put so much energy into machine learning and fear that, once I switch away, the path back to it won't be easy.

"Money is just a hygiene factor" seems like a good perspective once you already made bank. Have you given up on a good salary early in your career? What is your experience? What would you recommend?

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#2

Post by pxllh »

I've been in a similar situation, probably not as extreme but nonetheless. Some things I would recommend you considering:

a) Consider the take-home after tax, and compare that as it does make the numbers a bit more realistic.

b) It's not just money, it's time and energy. If you're not entirely sold on the idea (which it sounds like you aren't), then it's probably going to be more enjoyable for you to continue your PhD.

c) Offers come and go, and you've got an idea of what's possible. Maybe you won't get the same again in the future, but maybe you'll find something mid-way post-PhD which will give you satisfaction of work and better pay.

Don't focus on the money, focus on the fact that you're going to be spending the majority of most days doing this thing, and do what matters to you.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#3

Post by makedecisions »

pxllh wrote: post #2

I've been in a similar situation, probably not as extreme but nonetheless. Some things I would recommend you considering: a) Consider the take-home after tax, and compare that as it does make the numbers a bit more realistic. b) It's not just money, it's time and energy. If you're not entirely sold on the idea (which it sounds like you aren't), then it's probably going to be more enjoyable for you to continue your Ph…

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I know that you are right: I can always quit the PhD in the future. But realistically, it's pretty difficult to get an offer from one of the bigger tech companies with high salary as a Junior. So it's FOMO for both options and unfortunately I can't split myself in half. Painful to think about the opportunity costs the PhD has, but also painful to feel like giving up on the opportunity to gain more knowledge.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#4

Post by erehweb »

There's a book I like called "Stumbling Upon Happiness", which says that people are generally happier with making changes than staying put - even if things go wrong, they are very good at rationalizing them. So that would argue for taking the SWE offer as a tie-breaker.

Re the money, you might well be able to command a much higher salary as a PhD in computer vision / deep learning, which would be an argument for continuing the PhD.

The part that gives me pause is that you are not really excited about your PhD topic. It's a long process, so I think you will want to have that excitement to be able to sustain you through doing a PhD.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#5

Post by natalyarostova »

Try not to feel this is your one chance and you only have two options. You can get offers again. In addition, you could get work as a machine learning engineer in industry, either now or in a few years. You could spend another year doing deep learning, but dedicate 10% of your time to networking in industry and staying good at interviews, then reevaluate later.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#6

Post by makedecisions »

erehweb wrote: post #4

There's a book I like called "Stumbling Upon Happiness", which says that people are generally happier with making changes than staying put - even if things go wrong, they are very good at rationalizing them. So that would argue for taking the SWE offer as a tie-breaker. Re the money, you might well be able to command a much higher salary as a PhD in computer vision / deep learning, which would be an argument for cont…

Interesting perspective, haven't thought about letting my brain manipulate me into thinking I did the right offer after I make my decision. Thanks for the book, I'll have a look at it!

> Re the money, you might well be able to command a much higher salary as a PhD in computer vision / deep learning, which would be an argument for continuing the PhD.

There are so many factors that influence that _might_: research topic, network, publications, ... It's a bet on an uncertain future. Though I tend to think similar.

> that you are not really excited about your PhD topic

True. But I am excited about deep learning, and I can appreciate the opportunity to learn so much more about it while working on this project.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#7

Post by jraph »

As long as your salary is enough to live comfortably, do what best makes sense for you. You'll probably be happier taking the path that is the most meaningful to you.

Now, personally, if you got your motivation back, I'd advise to go ahead and finish this PhD! You'll have plenty of offers in the future, probably including more meaningful ones. We are in a field where job offers are not missing. You only have one PhD (usually) and you don't want to regret having spoiled it your whole life (of course, if it is not working out, get the hell outta there). Your PhD is (supposed to be) your personal work. Your rules and your ideas. At a level your job offer probably won't reach. You'll be able to try a software developer position later, there's no rush.

(as someone who did a PhD and is now working as a software developer).

(and yes, I did decline a job offer with a much higher salary that my current one, but I'm happy to have made this call: my salary is still decent, and I do something meaningful to me, and geographically close to where my friends are)

I wish you the best. There's no wrong answer. Relax and enjoy life.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#8

Post by cm2012 »

If it's a brand name tech company, like faang, it opens up many doors in your future to have the name on your resume. It makes it easier to get grants in the future. You'll also get practical experience that will help your science work.

Just make sure to keep living on your PHD salary, put the rest to savings. If you start living on the higher salary you'll never be able to go back to your PHD again.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#9

Post by jraph »

cm2012 wrote: post #8

If it's a brand name tech company, like faang, it opens up many doors in your future to have the name on your resume. It makes it easier to get grants in the future. You'll also get practical experience that will help your science work. Just make sure to keep living on your PHD salary, put the rest to savings. If you start living on the higher salary you'll never be able to go back to your PHD again.

I can't imagine getting back to a PhD after a few years in the industry. Maybe after a few months, yes, but that's probably not worth it and probably not a good look on the resume.

What's more, your current PhD topic might be outdated in a few years.

Re: Ask HN: Would you give up 100% more salary as a junior SWE/MLE?

#10

Post by makedecisions »

jraph wrote: post #7

As long as your salary is enough to live comfortably, do what best makes sense for you. You'll probably be happier taking the path that is the most meaningful to you. Now, personally, if you got your motivation back, I'd advise to go ahead and finish this PhD! You'll have plenty of offers in the future, probably including more meaningful ones. We are in a field where job offers are not missing. You only have one PhD…

> You'll have plenty of offers in the future, probably including more meaningful ones.

That would be great. I'm sure that one can and will find stimulating and interesting work without the PhD too - sometimes the ivory tower of academia makes it seem different though. What worries me more is the aspect of leaving machine learning for a different field, and then not finding my way back later on.

> (and yes, I did decline a job offer with a much higher salary that my current one, but I'm happy to have made this call: my salary is still decent, and I do something meaningful to me, and geographically close to where my friends are)

Glad to hear it all worked out for you!

> I wish you the best. There's no wrong answer. Relax and enjoy life.

Thanks mate! It sometimes feels so overwhelmingly difficult to navigate life in your early career. Appreciate it!

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