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Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

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Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#1
Hey,

I continuously have discussions with loved ones, that are affected by fake news regarding the current covid-19 pandemic.

It is really difficult do argue with them, because they are well informed in their bubble and have a lot of arguments that are hard to counter. I don't have the time to counter-proof every single fallacy.

I observed that all these people frequently get new posts and even longer videos. They use these to let me 'understand' their point of view. Watching these videos to have a basis to discuss on is time consuming, too. There are fewer videos to counter these - and in my experience just sending back counter videos does not help to convince them.

Have you experienced similar problems? Did you find a practical solution for your situation?

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#2
What I did after having argued several times is to straight up let them know that this isn’t true, told one or two examples on why these arguments are fake most of the time and that if they want to find arguments against it, that they would find some. Then I stop talking about such topics with them.

In my opinion, it‘s just not worth after having spent some time trying to discuss it with them. Especially when they don’t provide any backed arguments but just „random“ statements

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#3
What makes you so sure you have all the right answers, since you mention their arguments are hard to counter? I don't think the truth is partisan at the moment, and throughout history it's in moments like these, when people are extremely sure of the truth being partisan, that horrible things are allowed to happen. I mostly doubt when skepticism itself is demonized and made out to be the problem, and that seems to have be case lately.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#4
This is what helped for me for years: I stopped having discussions regarding opinions based on fake news. I usually just tell them that I don't have an opinion on the matter and that I don't care what their opinion is. I prefer to talk about something else.

In my opinion, I think it's better not to have too many opinions in general. This is one of the few opinions I have. It seems like our brain wants to have opinions on everything. But often the topics we want to have an opinion on are much more complex than we might think they are. To form a good opinion on the topic you must be able to understand a lot of the ins and outs of the topic. That takes a lot of effort. This is what fake news (and probably also correct news) abuses. It tries to form an over-hasty, sometimes completely wrong, opinion on a topic that's very complex to understand. Most people don't take the time to understand the complexity of the topic, and therefore think that this fake news opinion is the correct opinion. For most it takes too much effort to understand exactly how it works to realize that their opinion is not correct. Or even worse, there are many topics that probably don't have a correct opinion: are their more universes, what will the weather be in 10 years, will the stock market go up or down next year? Nobody can tell, even not the experts. I think that the only way to win the argument, is not participating. Just let it pass and let the experts (who have spend their whole life on it) deal with the issue.

For example, do you understand how mRNA vaccines work? How mRNA is transferred in lipi nanoparticles where ribosomes produce viral antigens? How cytotoxic T cells and T helper cells bind to the secretory vesicles to create a viral response? I sure know that I don't understand it, and it will take me months, maybe years, of deliberate practice to understand how mRNA vaccines works. I probably need a PhD in adaptive immune systems to understand this topic completely and for a good opinion. So I decide not to form an opinion about it. I trust the experts, who spend their whole life working on mRNA vaccines, to be right. If someone else has the opinion that mRNA vaccines don't work or are dangerous, fine, they can have their opinion. It's good to be (self-)critical sometimes. But I'm not in a position to argue with them, because I'm not an expert on the matter, nor do I have the time and (probably) the brains to understand this complex topic completely.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#5
The way I see it is that the covid issue has been integrated into the blue vs red tribalism that started long ago but really came to a boil during Trump's administration.

Additionally, media, both mainstream and alternative, are adding fuel to the fire because it means more clicks.

Normally in a situation where people can't agree I would suggest that you first try to find common ground and build from there. What I did was to find an occurrence where "my side" has been wrong and "theirs" has been right; then we did the opposite.

This was a great starting point for future conversations. And by conversations I mean dialectical ones rather than rhetorical.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#6
ikr. Reading HN posts based on MSM fake news is "really difficult."

Examples of fake news repeated on HN:

- corona wasn't a lab leak

- Jan. 6 protesters killed 5 people (4 were natural causes, 1 was by Capitol police.)

- Marxism "is the majority" and gives you the right to cancel other people.

- masks prevent corona transmission (the most common masks are only 5% effective.)

So how do we prevent HN from repeating fake news?

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#7
post #2

What I did after having argued several times is to straight up let them know that this isn’t true, told one or two examples on why these arguments are fake most of the time and that if they want to find arguments against it, that they would find some. Then I stop talking about such topics with them. In my opinion, it‘s just not worth after having spent some time trying to discuss it with them. Especially when they do…

Whether you let it go or not depends on if it is affecting their lives negatively.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#9
People that believe the official covid narrative are the ones affected by fake news in my opinion.

I wish people could see how their freedom is being taken away everyday and anything that goes against big pharma is labelled fake news.

I'm certain if you speak out against the CCP killing off Uyghurs in China then that is labeled as "fake news" in China.

I'm almost certain this comment will get flagged. Which will prove my point even more.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#10
I just point out that I get my information from doctors and medical professionals while they get all their Covid news from Facebook posts and random people.

Someone I know said their doctor told them he wouldn’t give the the vaccine if she was his sister for fear of becoming sterile. Sigh, I said it might be time to get a new doctor.

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