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Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

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Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#1
Those HN readers who have been software engineers for multiple decades, still enjoy the work and decided the management track is not for them, how and where do you actually look for new roles if and when the time comes to move on?

I don't necessarily want to work for one of the FAANGs, even though they do seem to occasionally look for this type of engineer. This is partially due to location, plus I've done the megacorp thing and am not a huge fan. While I get fairly regular inquiries from recruiters, those don't seem to be roles that are a good match for my experience and skillset. A lot of them seem to equate "senior developer" with ~5-8 years experience and can't get their head around someone who's in his third decade as a professional developer.

Is there a job board for grizzled software veterans out there somewhere that I don't know about, or is it 100% network at this point?

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#3
post #2

What's not clear to me from your text: what kind of role are you looking for? I.e. what are you missing from the "senior developer" roles?

That's a very good question, and not necessarily something I find easy to explain concisely. Let me try anyway :). Note, some of the bad impressions may come from the usual clued up recruiters who are trolling LinkedIn for keywords and then crank up the spam.

So what I expect from a role that's commensurate with my experience (trying to avoid "senior" as that's usually a pigeonhole):

- You tell me what you need to have built, I'll figure out the how (architecture, design, technology) and when it'll be done, based on the usual cost/velocity/quality constraints.

- I'll work with, guide, mentor and lead a team of developers if the size of the project needs it. However, I'm technical first, so I'm not interested in roles that are management only. This generally seems to be the crux of the matter - not a lot of companies seem to have these roles.

- If you give me the responsibility to deliver X, I also need to have the authority to make it happen. Don't ask me how I figured that out ;)

I can usually find roles that fit two out of three, but I don't seem to be able to find something that matches all three. My current role probably rates as 2 1/4 out of three, and is definitely a good fit, but with very limited growth potential (aka I'm close taking as far as I can take it).

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#4
A great question. I'm partially-grizzled (only 20 years experience) and looking for the same thing. Some sort of Principle Software Engineer with technical focus and no direct people management responsibilities. Searching LinkedIn brings back plenty of job hits...but it's mostly MegaCorp jobs like you mention.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#5
40 years and still programming here. I get freelance gigs through contacts, word of mouth, and an agency that represents me. Before freelancing I got f/t jobs for a long time solely through contacts and former co-workers. I’d start with your professional network. Job boards and gig marketplaces are a last resort, IMO.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#6
post #3
post #2

What's not clear to me from your text: what kind of role are you looking for? I.e. what are you missing from the "senior developer" roles?

That's a very good question, and not necessarily something I find easy to explain concisely. Let me try anyway :). Note, some of the bad impressions may come from the usual clued up recruiters who are trolling LinkedIn for keywords and then crank up the spam. So what I expect from a role that's commensurate with my experience (trying to avoid "senior" as that's usually a pigeonhole): - You tell me what you need to ha…

Points 1 and 2 describe the jobs of most Staff Engineers (or higher) at large tech companies like FAANG that I know. Smaller companies rarely have these because, perhaps unsurprisingly, small shops rarely have big enough technical challenges to need more than 1 person like this, and they double as management.

3 is likely to be a sticking point however. Once you have responsibility for large projects you are often in a certain amount of resource contention, the chance of avoiding political battles there is small unless you are a known superstar within the company.

If you're ok with that, I'd prepare for a whiteboard interview at one of the big well-paying tech companies.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#7
post #4

A great question. I'm partially-grizzled (only 20 years experience) and looking for the same thing. Some sort of Principle Software Engineer with technical focus and no direct people management responsibilities. Searching LinkedIn brings back plenty of job hits...but it's mostly MegaCorp jobs like you mention.

Please don't take this personally, it isn't aimed at you at all. You simply provided the trigger for the thought, likely without intention.

It's not "principle", it's "principal".

Other examples of this exist, "your", "you are" or "you're", etc.

As someone who has hired many engineers, let me tell you (plural) why I think accuracy in written communications is important. It's quite simple, really:

Software development is about minute attention to detail. Syntax, spelling, formatting, data structures, algorithms, etc.

When someone makes one of these mistakes in emails or a resume, they risk raising a question in the mind of the person evaluating them for a position. As the saying goes, these things stick out like a sore thumb.

Of course, none of this matters in the context of writing comments on an online community. It is utterly irrelevant. Even worse, sometimes autocorrect will easily do us in while writing comments on a phone or tablet. Again, this is not criticism of the comment I am responding to. Not at all.

Since we are talking about how to find a job, I am using the opportunity to highlight a variable a number of people might not recognize as potentially important.

English not your first language? Fantastic! Nor is it mine. Nor is Python, JS, C, C++, Forth, APL or assembler my first language. If it is important, you take the time to learn and write it correctly.

Here's a simple example:

I've been coaching a good friend who has been trying to land a sales engineering job that required understanding HTML, CSS and JS. This would not be a developer job, yet being able to understand API's and generally work with customers requires comfort with these technologies.

I had him enroll in a few online courses. He made a huge effort, learned a lot and was able to go from virtually nothing to being comfortable with the technology within a few weeks. That was fantastic to watch.

The other thing that was very interesting was watching what problems he had along the way. We ran daily zoom meetings where I would coach him, ask questions, have him write and explain code, etc. When one has been coding for over 30 years you tend to forget that some of these concepts can be very strange to people coming up from nothing.

One of the most important things I tried to correct was consistency in the way he wrote code. It's about the proverbial sore thumb I mentioned above.

Some can have great comprehension of coding, and yet, if they write something like this they almost guarantee not getting the job:

    function doSomething (){
         let myvar1=23;
            let myVar2 = 56;
      let MYvar3= "1234";
      //...etc
    }
    
    
    function do_something_else(){
    if (some_condition)
    dothis();
    else{ do_Somethign_else() }
    // ...
    }

In other words, mostly code that will run just fine but looks absolutely terrible, is difficult to read, is filled with inconsistent formatting, inconsistent variable and function naming conventions, etc.

Fair or not, to me --and I am sure others-- lack of attention to detail in written language tells me I might need to be concerned about similar errors in coding that might lead to wasting time or, worse, potentially serious bugs and issues. Three years later this person leaves the company and you discover the code they wrote is a rotten stinking mess nobody wants to touch.

It is better to avoid raising that question in the first place.

I think anyone looking for a job, developer or not, needs to understand that every word they put down on an email, resume or letter is an opportunity to either make a good impression or cast doubts. Be sure to take the time to create a favorable image on paper and not create questions that might deny you being considered for the job.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#8
post #4

A great question. I'm partially-grizzled (only 20 years experience) and looking for the same thing. Some sort of Principle Software Engineer with technical focus and no direct people management responsibilities. Searching LinkedIn brings back plenty of job hits...but it's mostly MegaCorp jobs like you mention.

Please don't take this personally, it isn't aimed at you at all. You simply provided the trigger for the thought, likely without intention. It's not "principle", it's "principal". Other examples of this exist, "your", "you are" or "you're", etc. As someone who has hired many engineers, let me tell you (plural) why I think accuracy in written communications is important. It's quite simple, really: Software development…

Is this comment written by GPT-3 or sometime similar? It reads like it.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#9
post #3
post #2

What's not clear to me from your text: what kind of role are you looking for? I.e. what are you missing from the "senior developer" roles?

That's a very good question, and not necessarily something I find easy to explain concisely. Let me try anyway :). Note, some of the bad impressions may come from the usual clued up recruiters who are trolling LinkedIn for keywords and then crank up the spam. So what I expect from a role that's commensurate with my experience (trying to avoid "senior" as that's usually a pigeonhole): - You tell me what you need to ha…

You should take a look at senior solution architect roles.

Re: Ask HN: How to find a new role as a very senior software engineer?

#10
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good question, and not necessarily something I find easy to explain concisely. Let me try anyway :). Note, some of the bad impressions may come from the usual clued up recruiters who are trolling LinkedIn for keywords and then crank up the spam. So what I expect from a role that's commensurate with my experience (trying to avoid "senior" as that's usually a pigeonhole): - You tell me what you need to ha…

You should take a look at senior solution architect roles.

Aren't those relatively sales oriented in general? At least they seem to be in those companies that I seem to work with.
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