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Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

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Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#1
What would be the fallout, under the hypothetical assumption that we manage to outlaw having a net worth above a billion minus one (or any scientifically determined stopping point for net worth)? I think the narrative of inequality is very much wealth driven, though there are other forms as well. Would it have a major impact on the way the world works? Would we instead have much more millionaires, with very little impact on the bottom of the pyramid?

The poorest section should have the maximum utility from additional income. However, is there any form of benefit the society can derive from individuals controlling wealth at scale?

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#2
Andrew Carnegie's thoughts (1889):

https://www.carnegie.org/about/our-history/gospelofwealth/

TL;DR keep billionaires, but since they've obviously beat the easy-mode personal accumulation game, they ought to play the harder-mode societal benefit game.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#3
Some of the tools we use everyday were created by people after they made their first billion dollars. iPhone and Microsoft Office, for example.

People will always create things, but if you have more money than you know what to do with, and your mind is not worried about working to put a roof over your head, then your mind is free to imagine and build the next world-changing thing.

Capping the income would then also put a cap on innovation. This is not necessarily bad; many people think we could have enjoyed a few more decades before the creation of the smartphone.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#4
Yes.

The US\UK model of capitalism has 2 properties that combine to make Billionaires both necessary and sustainable: they are very capital intensive AND they are consumer based societies.

Modern economies need big piles of capital. Somehow you have to get (say) 50bn USD together every time you want a new semiconductor fab facility or Facebook. Someone has to pay for that.

Historically, that money was raised from the middle class: if 20m people have $2500 each in the bank, the bank can pool that and a $50bn pile and lend it to make new businesses.

Those days started to end with consumerism: instead of sitting on a small bank balance, the average American\Brit(\Aussie) is in debt. So that means there were loads of opportunities out there going unfunded. So people who did have piles of cash could now reliably get big returns from lending. They could lend to capital intensive new businesses AND to companies like credit card providers for average Americans to use to fund pure consumption.

That's why you've seen these historically high rates of return on capital for the last 40 years. That's what caused billionaires in the first place AND what sustains their existence. That's why the US\UK have so many, while countries with strong savings cultures (Germany or Japan) have so few. It is also why you "need" billionaires: someone has to fund the average person spending more than they earn and fund new businesses (and to a lesser extent government debt). We could kill all the billionaires tomorrow, spend their cash for the new few months, then suddenly your credit card company would cancel your card as there was no one to fund you buying things and not paying for them, your employer would have to restructure as the interest on it's debt shot up as no one was lending etc.

A billionaire is just someone with a 100m AND 30 years of 8% RoI. They're the natural consequence of under supply of capital and high demand for products.

Wealth inequality is very much a function of individual over-consumption on a mass scale. If you want fewer billionaires, spend less than you earn and put the rest of the money into investments (a bank account or a shares\bond account). Vote for higher taxes and less spending to get the government doing the same thing. Billionaires are flourishing because they basically they hold a monopoly on the capital supply and the rest of us demand ever more capital.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#5
I see no reason why anyone in their right mind would need more than $50M. Hell, make that $10M. I'd personally be happy with $1M. There's no shortage of money, it's just all in the wrong places.

For that matter: $16384 birth bonus $512 monthly contribution 40 years 2.56% compounded daily

By age 40, you'd have close to half a million dollars.

1. start your own business. 2. buy a nice(er) house, keep working. 3. buy a clot of remote land, live like a goddamn monkey.

Up to you. But most people having half a mil at 40 I think is better than 2200 people having 90% of the wealth in the world, mostly for doing no effing work.

I've been working since I was 14, but I didn't find out about compound interest until much later. I'm now 60, and only have about $80K for retirement. Sucks to be me.

BTW, Eat the Rich.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#6
Excepting a few philanthropists, they would leave whichever nation that passed such a law, bringing their influence and power to a nation that doesn't, and / or funnel all the excess wealth into overturning or subverting it, of course. I mean, wouldn't you?

Even if the ban were universal, money at that scale is power. Alternative social or economic constructs would form to allow the ex-billionaire to continue to wield that power, e.g. some form of trust or corporation that the ultra-wealthy don't own but does their bidding or some form of clan or dynastic structure where family members and trusted retainers each hold part of the wealth but coordinate their actions.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#8
It’s an interesting thought experiment. We would expect to see an increased market for financial hedging close to the limit. It would be worth paying a great deal of money to ensure that almost a billion remained available without endangering either cash or highly valued company ownership. Imagine spending $40 billion over your life to guarantee always having almost a billion. The financial industry would grow enormously.

There would be other second order effects preventing the law from functioning well, and preventing successful people from becoming trapped in such a capricious state, but I’m seeing those aside.

Re: Ask HN: What would happen if we prevented the creation of billionaires?

#10

Excepting a few philanthropists, they would leave whichever nation that passed such a law, bringing their influence and power to a nation that doesn't, and / or funnel all the excess wealth into overturning or subverting it, of course. I mean, wouldn't you? Even if the ban were universal, money at that scale is power. Alternative social or economic constructs would form to allow the ex-billionaire to continue to wiel…

Seems similar to many politicians donating to each other's personal charities.
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