Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#1

Post by PierredeFermat » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

There has been a lot of red flags on the WHO recently, from misreporting data [1, 2] to confusing guidance on masks [3] to the controversial case of Taiwan [4, 5].

Does anyone here feel that such bureaucracies wouldn't/shouldn't survive long? And that they could be easily replaced by an efficiently-operated, software-powered non-profit (something similar to Our World in Data)?

One starting point that I could get couple universities and hospitals behind is a simple portal for any medical staff around the world to report severe flu or whatnot cases (with anonymized record/evidence) that they suspect to be a stem for a new disease outbreak.

Would anyone here be interested in helping to build such initiative? Or any thoughts? Suggestions? Counter-arguments?

--

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-source-data#world-health-organization-who-situation-reports-our-previous-data-source

[2] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/14/asia/coronavirus-who-china-intl-hnk/index.html

[3] https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/03/11/whos-confusing-guidance-masks-covid-19-epidemic/

[4] https://in.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-says-who-not-sharing-coronavirus-information-it-provides-pressing-complaints-idINKBN21H1BS

[5] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/14/asia/coronavirus-who-china-intl-hnk/index.html

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#2

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:03 PM UTC

How do you propose to keep it apolitical? Even Wikipedia has a political slant.

I agree with your concerns, but I don't know if what you propose can keep politics out. It is still probably worth a shot either way.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#3

Post by PierredeFermat » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

aww_dang wrote: post #2

How do you propose to keep it apolitical? Even Wikipedia has a political slant. I agree with your concerns, but I don't know if what you propose can keep politics out. It is still probably worth a shot either way.

Not entirely sure yet. However, that's exactly why verified, anonymous data reporting would be a good starting point. But I assume your concerns are more about [the difficulty of] neutral funding?

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#4

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

PierredeFermat wrote: post #3

aww_dang wrote: post #2

How do you propose to keep it apolitical? Even Wikipedia has a political slant. I agree with your concerns, but I don't know if what you propose can keep politics out. It is still probably worth a shot either way.

Not entirely sure yet. However, that's exactly why verified, anonymous data reporting would be a good starting point. But I assume your concerns are more about [the difficulty of] neutral funding?

Exactly, state sponsored universities could create some of the same conflicts of interest we've seen with COVID-19.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#5

Post by krapp » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

What would this organization's apolitical policy be regarding Taiwan?

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#6

Post by PierredeFermat » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

aww_dang wrote: post #4

PierredeFermat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely sure yet. However, that's exactly why verified, anonymous data reporting would be a good starting point. But I assume your concerns are more about [the difficulty of] neutral funding?

Exactly, state sponsored universities could create some of the same conflicts of interest we've seen with COVID-19.

True. How do you think this could be overcome? Crowdfunding? Donations?

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#7

Post by PierredeFermat » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #5

What would this organization's apolitical policy be regarding Taiwan?

Close coordination with the Chinese government :)

No, there would (almost) be no policy. That's the point. It's one planet - one health. Which country it is shouldn't matter much.

If a severe case was reported by medical staff in Taiwan, North Korea or where ever it would/should instantly show as potential breakout warning signal on some webpage or dashboard, without having to travel weeks through broken bureaucracies and press.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#8

Post by krapp » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

PierredeFermat wrote: post #7

krapp wrote: post #5

What would this organization's apolitical policy be regarding Taiwan?

Close coordination with the Chinese government :) No, there would (almost) be no policy. That's the point. It's one planet - one health. Which country it is shouldn't matter much. If a severe case was reported by medical staff in Taiwan, North Korea or where ever it would/should instantly show as potential breakout warning signal on some webpage or dashboard, without having to travel weeks through broken bureaucracie…

There has to be a policy. Either you deal with Taiwan though China and on China's terms, which is a political position, or you deal with Taiwan on its own terms, which is a political position, or you ignore Taiwan altogether because of the controversy around its status, which is a political position. Choosing to ignore bureacuracies and the press is a political decision. Choosing which data to post and what sources to trust is a political decision.

There's no such thing as an organization which operates internationally and is also apolitical.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#9

Post by MiddTech » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

PierredeFermat wrote: post #7

krapp wrote: post #5

What would this organization's apolitical policy be regarding Taiwan?

Close coordination with the Chinese government :) No, there would (almost) be no policy. That's the point. It's one planet - one health. Which country it is shouldn't matter much. If a severe case was reported by medical staff in Taiwan, North Korea or where ever it would/should instantly show as potential breakout warning signal on some webpage or dashboard, without having to travel weeks through broken bureaucracie…

Makes sense, but how would that be labelled. Any documentation or written/printed representation would need a label (preferably a consistent one).

Taiwan, China or just Taiwan?

What happens if you need to display a map of a contested area? any represenation you show will raise the hackles of some nation state or other.

"Which country it is shouldn't matter much." is an admirable goal, but at the risk of being pessimistic, it just isn't how nation states work.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to start an apolitical, decentralized version of WHO?

#10

Post by PierredeFermat » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #8

PierredeFermat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close coordination with the Chinese government :) No, there would (almost) be no policy. That's the point. It's one planet - one health. Which country it is shouldn't matter much. If a severe case was reported by medical staff in Taiwan, North Korea or where ever it would/should instantly show as potential breakout warning signal on some webpage or dashboard, without having to travel weeks through broken bureaucracie…

There has to be a policy. Either you deal with Taiwan though China and on China's terms, which is a political position, or you deal with Taiwan on its own terms, which is a political position, or you ignore Taiwan altogether because of the controversy around its status, which is a political position. Choosing to ignore bureacuracies and the press is a political decision. Choosing which data to post and what sources t…

In the broad definition of what makes something "political", that is definitely the case. No disagreement.

However, to not drift this discussion into definitions, I'll agree on your definition of "politics", which - correct me if I'm wrong - is any activity that involves decision making.

Let's assume, in that or any case, every decision and action to be political. Then the important question here becomes: how do we make political decisions that would ensure the most transparent, decentralised, instant and honest reporting? Would that mean trusting all medical facilities/staff of any kind or excluding some?

Point is: if every decision is political, then let's make the good ones with the best possible outcome, regardless of their nature/definition.