Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 18 posts

Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#1

Post by agent00shoe »

Recently, I've been getting a lot of rejections, for job positions I know I'm qualified for, and it's beginning to make me look for a pattern and question things. I assumed having nearly 15 years of experience writing enterprise-level software, my experience would be desirable as I get more years under my belt. I'm looking for remote work so interviews are usually over the phone, and have a casual tone. When I mention that I have a wife and kids, I don't know if that's good or bad in the company's eyes. Do they only want younger devs, without other obligations, who can work 60+ hrs/week? Do they think I'm too old? I recently read this about the hiring process at Automattic: https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-user-research/

"To that end, as we reviewed our hiring process, we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire. Whilst we have implemented a strong focus on metrics, and made certain adjustments, we’ve not seen the improvements we want. If this was a product, we would go to our users and ask them – so why not do the same here?

... we’re looking for women and non-binary people (trans/cis/gnc) who may experience similar gender discrimination in the workplace, who have multiple years of experience in a software development role."

So, they have a lot of straight, white male developers and their product goals aren't being met, so it might be because of the skin color and sexual orientation of their employees? I was a little surprised that Automattic would be so open and proud of their discriminatory hiring practices.

Am I being too sensitive? Is the discrimination real? Or maybe it's always been this way and I didn't notice when I was younger and landing the good jobs. Sorry if this post sounds like rant, but I've been a big fan of Hacker News for a long time and enjoy reading the threads because I genuinely value everyone's input here.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#4

Post by mastry »

To be fair to Automattic, that last quoted line is actually referring to a research project - not their hiring practices...

> For our initial research, we’re looking for women and non-binary people.......

But I understand your frustration. I have 20 years experience and I'm currently looking for a job (considering a recent offer, actually). Age discrimination is real IMO but there's little you can do about it (very hard to prove). Move on, find an employer with more realistic hiring practices. You don't want to work for the discriminatory companies anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#5

Post by Finnucane »

Encouraging more applications from women and trans programmers doesn't mean they're turning you down because you are not those things. If they do succeed at widening their pool of applicants, that may mean more competition overall for jobs. Was it to your advantage when the applicant pool was perhaps more limited in some ways? Maybe.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#6

Post by CyberFonic »

I feel your pain. I have come up against ageism with the typical brush-off being "over qualified".

I assume that the jobs you are applying for are for "remote" roles. If they are expecting on-site workers then suggesting that you are only willing to do the work remote is likely to be a non-starter.

I fail to understand why you mention having a wife and kids. That is the sort of personal question that in must jurisdictions is no permissible. So why do you even volunteer that information?

As for young devs, working 60+ hours for low salaries -- yes, that is a very common expectation.

HNers can only share their experiences. The only real way to get answers is to actually ask the interviewers for feedback and ideally more information up front. E.g. ask how, where and when the work needs to be done; what hours are expected; what salaries range they are considering, etc. You could also tweak your CV to appear younger, more independent, less experienced, willing to do on-site work and see what aspects give you better results. Unfortunately, remote work is not always a viable option for many potential employers, especially in the enterprise area.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#7

Post by agent00shoe »

Finnucane wrote: post #5

Encouraging more applications from women and trans programmers doesn't mean they're turning you down because you are not those things. If they do succeed at widening their pool of applicants, that may mean more competition overall for jobs. Was it to your advantage when the applicant pool was perhaps more limited in some ways? Maybe.

"we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire"

This is the part that bothers me. They have a predetermined image of who they want to hire, based on nonfunctional qualities, like race and gender. If a company said they had too many minorities working for them and the demographic they really wanted to hire was straight, white males, it seems like people would be up in arms over that. But the inverse seems acceptable.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#8

Post by agent00shoe »

CyberFonic wrote: post #6

I feel your pain. I have come up against ageism with the typical brush-off being "over qualified". I assume that the jobs you are applying for are for "remote" roles. If they are expecting on-site workers then suggesting that you are only willing to do the work remote is likely to be a non-starter. I fail to understand why you mention having a wife and kids. That is the sort of personal question that in must jurisdic…

Thanks for the suggestions. I normally wouldn't talk about my personal life, but I currently have a good job and when they ask why I'm looking for a new/remote role, I tell the truth: my wife and I want to move to a small town in a remote area to be closer to family and there aren't any IT opportunities there.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#9

Post by nairobi222 »

This is the part that bothers me. They have a predetermined image of who they want to hire, based on nonfunctional qualities, like race and gender. If a company said they had too many minorities working for them and the demographic they really wanted to hire was straight, white males, it seems like people would be up in arms over that. But the inverse seems acceptable.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is the IT field becoming discriminatory?

#10

Post by prometheus76 »

agent00shoe wrote: post #8
CyberFonic wrote: post #6

I feel your pain. I have come up against ageism with the typical brush-off being "over qualified". I assume that the jobs you are applying for are for "remote" roles. If they are expecting on-site workers then suggesting that you are only willing to do the work remote is likely to be a non-starter. I fail to understand why you mention having a wife and kids. That is the sort of personal question that in must jurisdic…

Thanks for the suggestions. I normally wouldn't talk about my personal life, but I currently have a good job and when they ask why I'm looking for a new/remote role, I tell the truth: my wife and I want to move to a small town in a remote area to be closer to family and there aren't any IT opportunities there.

Still-truthful possible answers that say the same thing without raising flags: "Cost of living where I am as increased quite rapidly, so I'm looking to relocate to a more affordable area."

"I'd like to live closer to family, and my current work situation makes that impossible."

"I'd like to move back to my hometown, but there aren't a lot of on-site opportunities there, so I'm hoping to get a remote position so that I can move back."

You get the idea. You can be vague and still truthful, so that you stay under the radar.

On a side note, it's very odd that having a wife and kids is something you now have to consider "hiding". Interesting times.

Post reply on HN