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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#1
Hello HN,

I'm a junior dev and have been employed at my current work place for over a year. I love technology and code, less so humans. A lot less. If I had to guess I would say that I probably have some form of social anxiety/autism that makes it really painful/difficult/demanding for me to interact with other people, so I usually try to keep these "interactions" to a very strict minimum required to achieve the tasks I am attributed.

Now, recently, I've come to realize more and more, how much trouble this actually causes in the end for me, as I am perceived as that "odd" guy, that never says a thing, never hangs out at work place events, that you simply give tasks to, and ultimately the job gets done.

As I was searching to limit human-human interactions as much as I could, I ended up being treated like a machine, go figure... I get attributed tasks almost exclusively by sales/marketing people with absolutely no understanding of anything appart from the end result they want. Sometimes that ends up being a 2 word "spec", an unachievable task, some month long back and forths where they realize every other step of the way that what I implemented, which was what they asked, was not what they wanted, etc. So I am starting to get a little fed up by all of this and am at quite a loss when it comes to actually addressing these issues. I try, but I figure that I might as well document myself on the process instead of the usual trial and error one could go through.

Anyhow, as stated in the title of this Ask HN, does anybody have any ressources to recommend to someone that just started his carrier and has a demonstrated history of complete lack of such skills ? Anything is welcome really, books, documentaries, blog post, whatever you might have come across.

Thanks!

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#3
I was in your boat not too long ago (honestly, I'm still there but it's become better), and I realized a simple, yet effective way to interact with people without having to a.) talk as much and b.) put your opinions out there for a possible anxiety-inducing interaction.

It really came down to asking good questions. This allows people to help clarify themselves to you without you having to talk too much. It also builds your listening skills, which is probably one of the more important interpersonal skills you can attain. If you ask good questions, people will seek you out. Win-win for your interpersonal and professional goals.

As for resources, I recommend A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Idea. It's a great book with actionable items to help you ask people questions they don't normally hear, which will help people not only understand you better, but help you understand them better. In the end I wouldn't be surprised if this book helps you help other people flesh out their ideas, desires and needs.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#4
Definitely read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

However, just reading a book on this subject is not enough. You will actually have to apply the principles in your everyday life. Dealing with people is kind of like an art. And just like any art (like painting) you can only get better with deliberate practice. Doing this might feel a little uncomfortable at first, but it's how we grow as people. Where I work, employees are offered tuition reimbursement for taking their official courses (https://www.dalecarnegie.com/en). The Carnegie courses helped me take the knowledge from these books and put it into practice. It was incredibly helpful for me, and aided in overcoming some of my social anxiety.

Another user also recommended toastmasters, which is probably an equal alternative if you can't get your company to pay for the courses.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#5
I am currently developing a program/course to deal exactly with this issue (15+ years as a team lead/manager/director, started in systems admin and development). I want to take a few students one on one through the course. Feel free to email me: students@makerleader.com.

I was going to wait a few weeks, until I had more content ready, but might as well start now.

If anyone else is running into something similar, shoot me a note, we can get a 5-6 person study group together and I'd happy to provide some generic basics, and do a deeper dive into the specific issues you may be having (free of charge obviously, hopefully in exchange for some feedback).

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#6
Make friend with people good at it.

Also work on being more at ease. "Limiting human interaction" is a bad route to go down to.

And finally on a positive note: learn to love your anxiety. Listen to what it says to you, knowing that its will ultimately help u do things better. People with no anxiety dont do things well. Learn to use it and master it to be better. Dont run from it

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#7
I absolutely sympathise and struggled with this myself to some extent. One thing that has worked for me is one-by-one adopting particular tactics that I see socially successful people using. And I mean I consciously note and incorporate them individually into my interactions. Eventually they get almost automatic. That may sound crazy and that it would look contrived. But I have never been called on it, no one has ever accused me of imitating another, and as far as I can tell it has been strictly beneficial. Of course, the tactics that work for me might not be the ones that would fit for you. So shop around! Watch other people and try some on.

Just for some examples of what I've adopted:

(1) When you first enter into a conversation, whether with a single person, or a group at a meeting, come in with a big smile. And actually, the worse the situation, the bigger the smile should be. I got that from my boss's boss. Likely does no apply at funerals.

(2) When listening to someone explain something, when they pause, repeat the last few words they said and nod. Like if they say, "We can't add more labor to the Jennings account, because that would pull from the Labowski project and THAT just can't happen!". You (nodding understandingly): "can't happen."

(3) When talking to non-technical people, never say the word "no". Get the idea across, and be just as clear as needed that something is not possible, but do not actually use that ego bruising two-letter word. This grates like hell against my technical mind that prefers clarity and actual reality. But I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#8
This is a very tough question. When I was a lot younger I had a similar question regarding dating. Let me transpose the advice from there what will likely have some added value for this as well. I have friends who are like you, I also see what they do (not much). It pains me to see it since I was in a similar situation once in my life. Now I'm still weird and odd but I'm also social! :D And people seem to like that.

A couple of tips on finding truth in the social arena:

1. You have to find the truth by experimenting yourself. Set social experiments up deliberately and in a controlled environment [1].

2. Psychologists are mostly wrong due to the replication crisis. I didn't know this at the time, I've suffered the consequences I'm overfitted to detect human biases. I found that I know how people work much better than any psychology book (I did a bachelors in it). I also tested/experimented a lot more than any psychologist because I don't need to publish papers.

3. Self help books are about as wrong as psychology text books. My tip: go for the great classics (e.g. Dale Carnegie), ignore the rest unless you know that that person has a very similar profile like you.

4. When you experiment be ethical but err a little bit on the side for choosing for yourself. Chances are that you're too careful anyway. Slight transgressions are fine as long as you learn from them and rectify your mistakes. If you can't make mistakes then you're not in a place to learn anyway. My worst transgression was saying outrageous opening lines and looking at the effects of them [2].

5. Find books via HN just use the search bar or some aggregated data analysis on what books HN uses. That'll be a good application of 3.

With these tips you can find truth: ignore most books, test things yourself, do take the books for people who were like you (that's not an easy tip), err on the side of making mistakes. Personally, I haven't found an easier way and I learned this over 10+ years.

A couple of tips on dealing with anxiety:

1. Try to find core positive emotions that are natural to you. Mine are (in order): curiosity, fantasy/imagining things and playfulness (playfulness is already tricky). Identify it, frame everything like that. Curiosity goes really well with finding truth and experimenting. "How does this work?" is a question I often asked and tested.

2. Learn meditation, also helps in boosting emotional intelligence. I can write a book about it but I'll recommend you one instead. Search Inside Yourself from Chade-Meng Tan. Best book I know on the topic (I read a lot of them).

One tip on politics itself:

1. I don't know where I read it but it stuck. Social skills and political skills are different. There are people with good social skills who are not good politically. The reason is that political games are about groups not individuals. Learn how to divide and conquer (i.e. talk to multiple people 1 on 1 and push your ideas through that you are convinced about and think are good for the company).

On finding coaches:

1. Coaches are very hard to find. I've had several of them. The one that worked best for me was the one that showcased and demonstrated what was actually possible by doing it himself. All looked really social and good. But you need someone who's able to demonstrate and give real-time live feedback even during the conversation (in a covert way via text for example for obvious reason, or in ear also helps though I never tried that).

On using advice:

1. I am a sponge and would be too easily influenced by advice. A couple of questions you need to ask yourself for taking advice: (1) does the advice make sense to you? If it doesn't then why not (possibly do a couple of Google searches). If it still doesn't then leave that particular advice as on hold. Don't discard it but put it on the backlog and don't use it.

On dealing with people you tell that you're doing this:

1. If people are weirded out that you're methodical and as scientific as possible about this then discard that opinion. It's tough for other people to know what you go through since they never had this problem themselves. Even good empaths may not be able to empathize with you (though some obviously do, they are good empaths after all).

[1] i.e. not work but with strangers or if there can't go too much wrong then in your work environment.

[2] Spoiler alert: almost all my predictions were off, you can say some ridiculous stuff and have it do something other than completely mop you over the floor, friends who struggle with this don't believe it. Then I show them and they still don't believe it. Then I show them 5 to 10 times and they might consider believing it some day. Please experiment yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#9
The Syntax podcast just did an episode on some strategies for getting along at work.

https://syntax.fm

My one piece of advice is to treat the problem like a really hard programming challenge -- it's a problem that definitely is solvable by you but will take a lot of work and learning a lot of new skills. You may never enjoy it or be the best at it, but you absolutely can do it.

Clearly you're on this path already by asking the question.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#10
I don't have particular resources for this type of issue but a few pointers which might help:

1 - Have a clear definition of your jobs remit in your own mind and be willing to say no entirely or partially to requests which are impossible or poorly defined. If someone hasn't given it thought themselves, why should you? This should be phrased in a polite manner and if they don't respond followed up after a few days to ensure blame cannot be placed on you.

2 - Identify key figures in your environment who are gatekeeprs/yield power in the business. These are people who you want to befriend or destabalise/reduce their power over you.

3 - Get some social skills outside of work, socialising is a skillset and can be developed regardless of the person. It is easier for some and more difficult for others but with practice you will improve, why not try a local tech club to test the water and maybe have some fun?

4 - Go to work events once you have some social skills. If you're terrible at even having a short, average conversation about the weekend for example, you will just be known as the awkward work guy who comes to events but no one likes..

5 - Understand what people want/their motiviations and their routine; If you can understand what makes a person tick and how they function, even on a low level you can use this information to either build rapport or to introduce chaos. An example of this would be a persons morning routine, if you know someone, lets say your boss arrives at 7:58 in the morning like clockwork, puts his bags by his desk and then gets ready to grab a coffee, why not ask him just before he puts his bags down and goes through the coffee thought process? You can talk about how the weekend was, maybe something funny that happened in the office etc and build rapport but also provide an outlet for venting.

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