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Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

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Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#1
I am a UK citizen with a profitable online business. I have no real responsibilities other than that and I would like to try living in a few different countries for a while before I have to settle in one place. My web business means I can work from anywhere as long as I have an Internet connection. Has anyone here in a similar situation tried this? What sort of hurdles did you face with visas? How was tax handled? Did earning your money online make things easier or complicate matters?

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#2
I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with:

Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move.

Insurance: health insurance by a provider that is outside your country of residence is going to result in some hurdles. You'll have to pay close attention to what your providers rules are for coverage outside of your country.

Visas: as long as you only stay long enough to stay qualified as a visitor then visas are probably going to be a non-issue. Once you exceed the amount of time allowed as a visitor then you have to deal with that countries rules for visas and they differ from country to country.

Cash, check and credit: acceptance of credit cards and checks in foreign countries will very. Banks tend to charge fees for withdrawing money in other countries so be prepared to eat those fees. Often it is easiest to just use cash, so take enough to get started and have a plan on how to get more while you're there, i.e. figure out where the cash machines are, if they accept your cards and what the fees are.

Tax: IANAL nor am I an accountant or tax specialist and I am not sure how it works in the UK. Having said that, the US is a bit odd in that they tax their citizens worldwide, so no matter where I live I will have to pay US taxes. If I am a resident in another country then I'll likely have to pay taxes there as well and then try to get a credit in the US for taxes paid overseas. It's still early for me on this one so I'm not sure exactly how taxes will pay out.

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#3
I've done it for a couple of years (5 in all), from the Netherlands to Canada.

It cost an arm and a leg, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

As for taxes, the rule in my case was that as soon as I spent more than half a year per year in the one country that one became the one where I paid my taxes.

I did create a corporation in Canada in order to have a bigger footprint and to help with the immigration process. Eventually moved back to Europe because the immigration process seemed to take for ever (of course, two weeks after letting everybody go and moving back to Europe we received permission to become landed immigrants).

I wouldn't do it again with the same country, but really, it was a very nice time.

If an opportunity presents itself to move abroad again I'll probably take it (as long as it is not the USA or Canada).

Nothing broadens your horizons and teaches you stuff than moving to different places on the planet.

Asia in 2013? Who knows ;)

Earning money online made stuff considerably easier, it meant that no matter how rotten the local economy was there was always food on the table and transportation.

Health insurance is different per country so you'd better check in to that in serious detail before you make your move, there can be all kinds of limitations and liabilities if you mess that up.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#4
I'm quite in the same position like you (web business), I tried to go to the US for one year, but the visa progress is hell, too over one year to first tell us it is going to be ok, later revoking it. The US visa system is seriously broken. Other than that issues, I think its a great idea.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#6
post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

While the US will tax you as long as you are a citizen, you can take a credit for any foreign taxes that you already paid on the same income, which should prevent double taxing unless you happen to be in a very low tax country. If you had some kind of business setup to collect the income in the foreign country you could probably keep a lot of profits in the business and not claim much income for yourself, but it is something you'd probably want to talk about with an accountant and is probably different in the UK (I love UK tax forms by the way, so simple compared to ours!)

As for actual experience, I had a great time in Buenos Aires. You get 90 days visitor visa with a US passport and there is a good size population of ex-pats that take a weekend trip to Uruguay when they get close to 90 days, turn around and get another 90. A bunch of them make some cash teaching English and keep it all under the table, which I don't really recommend (I mean they still get you on VAT, but you don't want to mess with any laws in a foreign country if you can help it), but it isn't a bad place to be.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#7
post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

I would totally agree with the "extended" vacations it's going to give you less grief then trying to understand tax law in every country. Plus proving to your home country your really living abroad.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#8
post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate.

You will want to be very, very careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally not be happy if you try to pay no tax locally and send it all home. The rule is typically that you pay tax where you spend the most number of days of that tax year. No idea what happens when tax years for natural persons don't overlap (UK has April-April, many countries have calendar years) - in my case I didn't earn any money in the interim so it wasn't an issue.

Within the EU, you'll probably need to register your new residence as the, or one of the company's offices where its business is conducted. You don't need to register it as a business of that country, though, unless you're a sole trader. Any salary or dividends you pay yourself will usually be subject to local taxes, social security, health insurance and possibly other fees. Your accountant(s) will need to tell you where the business pays tax on its profits.

You may also require a permit for operating a business in that country. I did (UK citizen, located in Austria), and although software development is usually not regulated in the way the medical, legal and other professions are, I did require a certificate of any record on the UK Police National Computer, or rather lack of any record. This took almost 2 months and cost 10 pounds. I managed to sweet-talk the bureaucrat in Austria into not requiring an official translation, but the rule is that you do - this will add extra cost and time.

You may also require a residence permit, even within the EU. That too tends to be a mere formality, but usually they want proof of earning enough to sustain yourself. Not a problem if you're a UK limited company, you'll be used to your income being a matter of public record anyway. I didn't need this in Vienna, but a German friend in another State (Lower Austria) got an unpleasant visit from the immigration police.

UK->EU specific, but: you can forget your E111 for anything but emergencies. You'll probably be forced to get local health insurance (in Austria they write to you and bill you as soon as you register the business) anyway.

Hopefully, you'll encounter less hassle - Austria is exceptionally hostile towards the self employed, and taxes are insane.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#9

There are bunches of blogs from those that do this as a lifestyle. Thailand is a pretty popular spot for digital expats. http://thrillingheroics.com/about

I second that. Firsthand.

Life is generally very cheap here. Overall, you will feel like walking on eggs for the two first years but after that things will be just fine. Culturally, you will need to be able to handle huge alignments.

Honestly, there are ups and downs to this but you will feel alive like never before (this is a general statement about living abroad).

I would advise contacting a good lawyer to help you handle the whole immigration hell (yes, it is). In the IT business there are some shortcuts agreements with the government that can help. I can give you a good pointer on this.

More generally, if you can afford it; do it by all means.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#10
post #8
post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate. You will want to be very, very careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally not be happy if you tr…

"You will want to be very, very careful with that."

You're right. You probably want to find a good tax attorney or accountant that is well-versed in the tax laws and treaties of any and all countries you plan on spending time in, especially if you plan on doing business locally.

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