Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

news.ycombinator.com

1–10 of 21 posts

Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#1
Hello HN.

I run AbuseIPDB, a free distributed IP threat analysis database that allows users to report abusive IPs (spammers, bruteforcers, etc) through an API, webform, or Fail2Ban integration. We have over 30,000 users and almost 50k IPs reported per day.

I received a legal letter today from Semalt, a company that is probably familiar to many of you as a shady SEO company. They're mad because one of our users flagged one of their IPs on our site with the following comment:

https://www.abuseipdb.com/check/196.216.49.242

"Bot that promotes semalt.com SEO through web log referrer click bait spam with fix-website-errors.com, keywords-monitoring-success.com and keywords-monitoring-your-success.com. Does not identify itself as a bot, nor does it follow robots.txt. Clickbait link includes your domain name to let the bot's master know they got through. Primary site has form to gather domain names."

Semalt says this:

"The above mentioned materials do not contain any truthful information, and you ignore our attempts to clarify the issues related to your abusive comments and articles. You choose to ignore us and continue spreading false information. Our company has never been involved into the distribution of referral spam.

On the contrary, we often suffer from fake referral traffic on our website. The Semalt company has no doubt that you have used the trademark of our company in your publications not by accident but on purpose hoping to attract customers (readers) by using the popular brand/product name. [...]"

Full legal letter is here, including all of the threats of suing for damages, invoking GDPR, etc etc. For what it's worth, they didn't even bother contacting us through the website before sending this.

https://www.scribd.com/document/381802760/Abuseipdb-com-Abuse-Letter

Has anyone else crossed paths with these guys before? It it worth responding to or acting on?

Thanks for your input!

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#2
I think Semalt sent the same letter to anyone who has mentioned their wrongdoing or how to block it... I think most of them do not even want to bother or any trouble with the company. Simply delete the article because it was like big topic in 2014. Now because of GDPR, they are trying to abuse it and cover all of their shits.... i don't even wanna bother with them.. I just deleted the article..

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#3
post #2

I think Semalt sent the same letter to anyone who has mentioned their wrongdoing or how to block it... I think most of them do not even want to bother or any trouble with the company. Simply delete the article because it was like big topic in 2014. Now because of GDPR, they are trying to abuse it and cover all of their shits.... i don't even wanna bother with them.. I just deleted the article..

Does GDPR have anything to do with this? None of their PII is posted. GDPR doesn't let you force anyone to delete anything about you from their site.

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#4
post #3
post #2

I think Semalt sent the same letter to anyone who has mentioned their wrongdoing or how to block it... I think most of them do not even want to bother or any trouble with the company. Simply delete the article because it was like big topic in 2014. Now because of GDPR, they are trying to abuse it and cover all of their shits.... i don't even wanna bother with them.. I just deleted the article..

Does GDPR have anything to do with this? None of their PII is posted. GDPR doesn't let you force anyone to delete anything about you from their site.

it is all about their online reputation... if you type in semalt, there are many articles talk about their spamming behavior back in 2014, and most analytics block them.. they just want to remove those articles/comments as many as possible...and to be forgotten/"privacy". i did search.. their trademark is Estonian Trademark, and still in pending(date of filing: 16.05.2018).. so they are part of Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#6
I received the same exact message from Semalt about an article I wrote back in 2014. I'm pretty sure this is a scare tactic since I can't find any reason for them to "start legal proceedings", and the letter they sent is clearly copy and pasted since one of the field wasn't updated from the last person they messaged. Also, they have no reason to mention GDPR – it has nothing to do with this situation.

Just in case, I contacted a lawyer – I'll fight it if it goes further since I don't appreciate being bullied by a company like this, and nothing I said was false.

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#7
I also received a very similar letter in an email. I had an article on my site from several years ago about how to block referral spam, and Semalt was one of the sites I listed. I've deleted the article but did not reply to the email.

I feel a bit bad that I deleted the article as everything in it was truthful and helpful to people looking for that info. However, I don't want to get into a legal fight (although that's probably unlikely).

The only thing I can think of that I could possibly be in trouble for legally is that I called these sites referrer spam and ghost spam. However, so have a thousand other sites and what they did really seems to fit the definition of that exactly.

I read online that these sort of letters are supposed to be delivered by mail, not electronically. Additionally, I wonder about the statute of limitations is on this.

Anybody have any free, anonymous legal advice?

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#8
I know several blogs and sites who have written about the semalt referral spam back in 2014 that have gotten legal threats against them.

The letters claim trademark infringement. They own no trademark in the USA, and there is one in pending status in their own country. Would claiming you own a trademark (yet you don't officially own one yet) be an issue?

If you've written about how to block Semalt referrer spam, you're just informing your readers about how to block referral spam (the domain doesn't really matter). So that falls under fair use.

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#9
post #7

I also received a very similar letter in an email. I had an article on my site from several years ago about how to block referral spam, and Semalt was one of the sites I listed. I've deleted the article but did not reply to the email. I feel a bit bad that I deleted the article as everything in it was truthful and helpful to people looking for that info. However, I don't want to get into a legal fight (although that'…

Calling the sites referrer spam and ghost spam is correct. It's spam, which is illegal in some countries, and visitors did NOT come from Semalt.com to your website. It's fake, and I'd continue to call it what it is: referral spam and ghost spam.

Some even tracked down the Semalt botnet that was doing this referral spam and ghost spam. So you're absolutely in the right by calling it what it is. What semalt did was absolutely referral spam. They claim it wasn't them, but they certainly profited from it.

Re: Ask HN: Abusive-seeming legal threat from Semalt

#10
post #3
post #2

I think Semalt sent the same letter to anyone who has mentioned their wrongdoing or how to block it... I think most of them do not even want to bother or any trouble with the company. Simply delete the article because it was like big topic in 2014. Now because of GDPR, they are trying to abuse it and cover all of their shits.... i don't even wanna bother with them.. I just deleted the article..

Does GDPR have anything to do with this? None of their PII is posted. GDPR doesn't let you force anyone to delete anything about you from their site.

I don't think GDPR has anything to do with this. You're correct, none of their PII is posted, and you didn't save any of their PII.
Post reply on HN