I've graduated college (Philosophy, 3.2 GPA), done some various projects on Github (Using Go, JS, & Python), networked with friends, but the problem I keep finding is my resume. People express interest in hiring me, check out my Github, but then give me the fade once they see my resume. I feel like it's a catch-22: I can't get experience until I've gotten experience. I thought my Github would close the gap, but alas it hasn't! I've read lots of posts on HN discussing this, and all opinions are welcome in response to this query, but specifically let me ask, should I really just lie and claim more experience? (I've had friends wanting to hire me suggest this subtly)
Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
1–10 of 24 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#2Write a software product whose binary will have some popular appeal.
It's doesn't have to be a Killer App - it's OK if that appeal is popular only among a certain demographic.
I got my break as a coder by applying for a QA job that expected me only to execute scripts that someone else wrote.
But one day my manager walked into my cube to find it completely wallpapered with what looked like flowcharts.
"Those are actually dataflow diagrams," I explained. "I can't quality MacTCP 1.0.1 because the test tool always crashes."
"I know how to code on the Macintosh. Any chance you could get approval to have me fix all the bugs in strm_echo?"
I knew and he knew and my manager's manager all knew that I was offering to do software engineering for the pay I received as a script monkey.
I fixed strm_echo, qualified 1.0.1, 1.1 and wrote a new tool and a test plan for 1.2. In the process I got really good at debugging with the MacsBug machine debugger.
My next job I was the Product Development Manager for a company whose flagship product was incompetently written by a con artists. I stayed at Working Software for 3 1/2 years, during which I learned everything else - other than MacsBug - that I needed to know to be a commercial Mac developer.
If you want a mobile app development job you have to have at least one app in either Apple's App Store or in Google Play.
If you want to be a web developer you need to create a useful website - not for other coders to look at your source, but for end-users to find useful and appealing.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#3Everybody else does. Not doing so just puts you behind the rest of the pack. Work out what your own personal line-in-the-sand between "exaggeration" and "outright lying" is, work out what you can plausibly exaggerate - and whether your references will support those exaggerations. You (probably) need to make at least _some_ of your Github or side project work sound on your resume like "commercial experience", and ideally have someone as a reference for that bit of work who'll back that claim up.
Everybody exaggerates on their resume - the line between that and lying is up to you and your own personal ethics.
You 100% wouldn't be the first person to land your job (first or not) based on a lie. Make sure you can back the lie up though, and try to make it a small enough lie that the next resume doesn't need to perpetuate it (you don't want to be the CTO trying to explain away why the company about us page lists you as graduating from Harvard...).
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#4Lying is unacceptable--it's better to be honest with your employer and if they still hire you then both sides have better-calibrated expectations.
If you're not getting the sort of work you want, maybe adjust your expectations.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#5Everyone describes their experience in the light most favorable to them. That's different from inventing a past job entirely. If you get caught in the latter, then many (most?) companies will reject or fire you.
If you can't get a full-time job, do some contract work. Worst case, go on Upwork or whatever. If you charge low enough, then someone will take the bait. You can then describe that work in whatever misleadingly favorable terms you prefer.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#6I would say work with a recruiter. That's how I got my first programming job, with only two semesters of CS education but a lot of time invested in teaching myself how to program. Recruiters should have a good idea for what their clients are looking for, and how flexible they are WRT unorthodox educational backgrounds, no professional experience, etc. They won't waste your time with clients with which you wouldn't stand a chance. (Not that they care about your time, necessarily. They wouldn't want to alienate their client by sending someone who is in their not-a-chance-in-hell bracket.)
Also, if you're trying to work for a big tech name or some hip startup, go for the enterprise IT shop instead. A bank, insurance company, hospital system, grocery store chain, etc. Because working in those places is considered unsexy, and they know it, they have to be more flexible than the places that are flooded with resumes from hotshot coders. Again, that's how I got my foot in the door. Work there for a year or two, do well, learn as much as you possibly can, and you'll be firmly established on the career ladder.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#7Everyone describes their experience in the light most favorable to them. That's different from inventing a past job entirely. If you get caught in the latter, then many (most?) companies will reject or fire you. If you can't get a full-time job, do some contract work. Worst case, go on Upwork or whatever. If you charge low enough, then someone will take the bait. You can then describe that work in whatever misleading…
"charge low enough"
For a while I had the idea that I would only charge the rate that I actually required to cover my modest expenses.
I got no offers for any kind of work. Not perm, not contract.
Now that I charge obscene hourly rates I'm getting lots of work.
If you don't charge enough for contract coding potential clients will assume that you are so inexperienced that you are completely unaware of what other contractors are charging.
Use http://salary.com to guide your bid. If you _do_ choose to pursue contract programming, add one-half of your IRS 1040 Schedule SE Self Employment Tax to salary.com's salary then convert it to hourly rates.
But you will also want to pay for your own vacations, medical insurance and the like. Do some research on what kind of benefits your kind of coder receives than add at least that much to salary.com's salary and one-half of your self-employment tax.
(The self employment tax is equal to the sum of the employer and employee contributes to FICA - the social security tax.)
Also take into account the cost of providing your own software and equipment, your advertising and other legitimate business expenses.
All this has the result that contractors appear to be far better paid than are perm employees. If you only charge what I advise above then your take-home pay will be no more than that of the perms.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#8Everyone describes their experience in the light most favorable to them. That's different from inventing a past job entirely. If you get caught in the latter, then many (most?) companies will reject or fire you. If you can't get a full-time job, do some contract work. Worst case, go on Upwork or whatever. If you charge low enough, then someone will take the bait. You can then describe that work in whatever misleading…
"charge low enough" For a while I had the idea that I would only charge the rate that I actually required to cover my modest expenses. I got no offers for any kind of work. Not perm, not contract. Now that I charge obscene hourly rates I'm getting lots of work. If you don't charge enough for contract coding potential clients will assume that you are so inexperienced that you are completely unaware of what other contr…
Agreed in general. If you're literally looking to get paid money to do something for the very first time in your life, then I'm not sure the amount matters much--just code a landing page for $100 or whatever, and then use that experience to get a real job.
Aside: Not a great sign that the answer that most strongly advises honesty is the lowest-rated...
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#9There is missing information here. What makes you think you are slam-dunk qualified for a 6 figure Software Engineering position when you only have a couple of seemingly random (from what you've told us) projects up on GitHub? Why should any team take a chance on you?
These are important questions to answer because you have to be able to crisply articulate them otherwise there are much more qualified candidates to choose from (depending on the hiring market).
Also what gives you the impression that lying is normal? There is a difference between lying and casting your past experience in the most favorable light possible (take this too far and you can cross over into the realm of lies). Lying is a great way to start off in this industry on the wrong foot - it's a smaller world than you think and the cost of lying is higher than you think.
Re: Ask HN: Do I have to lie to get first tech job?
#10If you're relying on a resume for work, you're probably being inefficient in the first place. All the jobs I got were not through a resume. The resume is just there to justify to the boss's boss why they're hiring me.