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Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

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Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#1
Hi Everyone-- Long wall of text ahead, sorry, but hopefully details will help.

I've been working at a startup since the beginning of the year. It has been good thus far -- great environment, great people, great time. I'm the only programmer and our products absolutely require this company to have a programmer on staff. I'm very much enjoying the work -- this wasn't in my area of expertise before (the business end) but I'm really getting a knack for understanding how our product fits in the field. And further, I've been able to really develop my skills to be a versatile programmer/dev. ops. guy.

The problem is that I'm looking at the calendar, and listening to all the conversations about sales and what not, and thinking: "Man, this company is probably going to go belly up around Christmas." And while in this part of the world, it wouldn't be too hard for a programmer to get work -- even freelance work until the post-Christmas doldrums -- I'd really not want to be out of work around Christmas. I have mega bills (student loans) and am very fastidious about money.

At this point, I'm trying to keep the whole thing very un-personal even though I'm really good friends with all of the founders (CEO/CFO/COO). But, I think it should be noted that as we launched one of our first products a few weeks back, all three founders took vacation the week/weekend before the launch -- it was assumed that I'd get the project done on time, so I ended up canceling mine. So, at the end of the day, I'm wondering if the Godfather quote comes into play -- "This is business not personal."

Further -- the company is trying to figure out how to stay afloat, and one of the ideas is to start doing consulting. Which sounds fine, but I came from a consulting/agency background specifically to leave that type of work; so while I would gladly help these guys out if we were doing it while working on the core products, this new model where we give up the core products for five or six months is just not very appetizing.

I know there are other startups interested in me -- they've reached out to me -- but I'm just not sure what to do when the boat is sinking. I understand if I was a skin-in-the-game cofounder, then like a captain, its down with the ship. But what if I'm just one of the first employees, who still has no equity (that discussion was had and they decided I'd get a "big" share, once we became revenue neutral) and who has enough bills and student loans to not be comfortable with the idea of one day paychecks just stop coming?

Thanks for any insight or personal experiences...

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#2
Let's review: you're not a co-founder, and have no equity. Vague promises have been made about you "getting a share", but no commitments. The co-founders all went on vacation immediately prior to a launch, but you cancelled yours to get the product ready. The business is foundering, and you're not convinced that the co-founders are responding to the challenges in the right way, and you suspect the company will run out of runway before Christmas.

Is that a fair summary?

If so: why are you even thinking about staying, if you've got other options?

If you've got a plan that you think will put the company on a firmer financial footing, I'd pitch it to the co-founders, and ask to be brought in on the equity side.

Otherwise, I'd walk as soon as the right offer came along.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#5
If you feel like things are not going well and you have other offers, jump. It's always easier to find work while you're employed than it is once you're unemployed, especially with the state of the economy. You feel that you owe them something, but they do not appear to share that view (that they owe you something). Go to greener pastures while the going is good.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#6

Let's review: you're not a co-founder, and have no equity. Vague promises have been made about you "getting a share", but no commitments. The co-founders all went on vacation immediately prior to a launch, but you cancelled yours to get the product ready. The business is foundering, and you're not convinced that the co-founders are responding to the challenges in the right way, and you suspect the company will run ou…

Well when you put it like that...

All kidding aside, I think that I've been stuck in a forest for the trees mode. From the outside, I think you're able to see whats going on a lot better than I. Thanks for that.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#7

Why does a company with only one programmer have a CFO and a COO? Also, why wouldn't you be the CTO and have a share if they are all about titles... I'd say it seems like maybe you are being taken advantage of and it might be time to jump ship. Good luck!

You'd be amazed ... when I first started I reported to the (then) COO who reported to the CEO. But we all sit in the same room, so I'd ask the COO my question, and then he would turn and ask the CEO, who would turn and answer the COO who would then turn and answer me.

But your point about being taken advantage of has been in the forefront of my mind. Thanks for giving that some credence.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#8

Let's review: you're not a co-founder, and have no equity. Vague promises have been made about you "getting a share", but no commitments. The co-founders all went on vacation immediately prior to a launch, but you cancelled yours to get the product ready. The business is foundering, and you're not convinced that the co-founders are responding to the challenges in the right way, and you suspect the company will run ou…

Well when you put it like that... All kidding aside, I think that I've been stuck in a forest for the trees mode. From the outside, I think you're able to see whats going on a lot better than I. Thanks for that.

Why do they only want to give you a share when they're revenue-neutral?

A limited company, their liability is extremely limited, I'm assuming it's not a partnership. There's no reason for them not to give you equity right now.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#9
I've been an early employee / only programmer in a startup in the past, in which the founder said the exact same thing -- once we get to "revenue neutral," you'll get "a big share of equity."

It won't happen. They only said that to keep a carrot in front of you for a little while longer. If the company ever gets to revenue neutral, their idea of a "big share" will suddenly change. After all, why give a programmer a significant chunk of equity once the company is making money? That equity is suddenly worth something!

If you don't already have equity, you're not likely to get any. And it sure sounds like you deserve a significant amount of equity given how early you are and the risks you're taking; if you wait to negotiate how much equity you get until after the risk has gone down, you'll get a lot less equity. And that's if you get any at all.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well when you put it like that... All kidding aside, I think that I've been stuck in a forest for the trees mode. From the outside, I think you're able to see whats going on a lot better than I. Thanks for that.

Why do they only want to give you a share when they're revenue-neutral? A limited company, their liability is extremely limited, I'm assuming it's not a partnership. There's no reason for them not to give you equity right now .

From what they said was that to give out shares at this point would require additional lawyer fees. They are already formed as an S corp (I believe), so I'm not sure how much lawyer fees would be required, but nevertheless, I was young and naive when I first started (this is my first startup) and probably should have pushed a bit harder.
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