Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#1

Post by alexwyser » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 2:36 PM UTC

I work as a freelance web designer and developer.

When I first started out I only offered web design services, but soon found out that it is almost impossible to get clients who need design only. Most clients just want a complete functional website not just a design.

So I learned HTML, CSS and eventually Javascript, and PHP.

The problem is that I dislike coding. I find it to be very boring.

I read on HN and on other forums and blogs about how passionate programmers are about coding and how they love nothing more than to code away into the wee hours of the night, but I never understood why.

I get the part where its a thrill to solve problems. I love solving problems too, but conceptually not through coding. For example, I like the concept of ranking a page higher based on how other sites link to it (ie Google's Pagerank), and would enjoy conceptualizing further improvements, but I would find it extremely boring to translate that solution into code.

For a web application, the code might make the entire thing operate, but it never affects the user the way the design or interface does.

Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding?

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#2

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 2:52 PM UTC

Any competent designer could come up with the interface for Dropbox. The code affects the user far more than the design or the interface ever will. Code decides what's possible. Design decides how what's possible will feel. Both are important. Some of us want to change what's possible for users. Others enjoy being knocked on our ass by how hard the problems are when you try to make the impossible possible.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#3

Post by scott_s » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 2:58 PM UTC

Many people enjoy cooking. I suspect the kind of coding you're doing is the cooking equivalent of warming up a can of Spaghetti-O's.

The enjoyment from programming depends on the problem you're solving. If all you're doing is making sure the round peg is connected to the round hole, it's not going to be much fun.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#4

Post by Khao » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:04 PM UTC

I am a programmer and I am very passionate about coding. I think it all comes from the fact that I loved mathematics and physics in school. I love solving problems, finding ways to reach your goal using your logic. On the other hand, I dislike designing because I am not good at creating something without a specific goal. I can't just think up ideas for design. However, when I am faced with a problem where I have a starting point and I have a target to reach (implement feature X into Y), I am thrilled by finding the logic behind making everything work like desired.

As for you, I don't think there's anything you can do to really love coding. You love designing because something in it thrills you I am sure. But if you cannot find something to thrill you in coding, there's not much to do about it. How about you use free frameworks to create websites instead? It would save you a lot of time on the coding part and you would have more time to spend on things you like. Try to find one that minimizes the parts you dislike about website creation and that gives you the most freedom on thing you like.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#5

Post by gte910h » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:06 PM UTC

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding?

You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO.

HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower.

You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#6

Post by nopassrecover » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:07 PM UTC

"For a web application, the code might make the entire thing operate, but it never affects the user the way the design or interface does."

The way an iPhone slides, the way Google suggests what you're about to type, the way wikipedia can undo vandalism, the way Firefox merges your history and favourites and countless other things never affect the user?

It's like saying, "the PSD image never affects the user the way the design or interface does".

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#7

Post by nopassrecover » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:08 PM UTC

gte910h wrote: post #5

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding? You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO. HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower. You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst possible examples of "coding". I was forced to use PHP on a recent project and I felt like tearing my eyes out it was that bad and immature compared to other methods. It was like telling a formula one driver they have to drive through peak hour in a rundown 1970s ford and then asking if they like driving.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#8

Post by iamapipebomb » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:11 PM UTC

As with any preference, the illusion of choice is usually necessary. If you feel you have to be doing it, it's not going to be all that much fun, at least starting out.

To enjoy it, you also need to tie the effort put in to significantly rewarding output. You have emphasized the design, interface, and user. It doesn't take much to see the code as important to these things in a direct and easily manipulable way. For instance, the implementation of AJAX-y stuff on a previously static page has huge implications to the user. A few lines of jQuery can bump the feel of the page by a decade.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#9

Post by dieterrams » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:19 PM UTC

It wouldn't surprise me if the sort of code you're writing is boring. A lot of website dev is.

Programming doesn't become fun (or at least obsessively involving) until you start working on something that's challenging to architect well, optimize, or code elegantly. If the functionality is inherently interesting, that helps, too.

Chances are that your programming education (which I'm assuming was self-taught) lacked a teacher that introduced you to interesting challenges of architecture, optimization, and elegance. In other words, showed you how programming can be a highly intellectual activity. I recommend working through Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs while watching accompanying lectures and doing exercises. It's as good an intellectual introduction to programming as you can get.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#10

Post by mattwdelong » Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 3:23 PM UTC

Coding, the actual process of writing out the code, is a fairly mundane task imo. I also don't like coding, but I LOVE to problem solve. As soon as it`s feasible for me to do so, I plan on assigning the task of coding to people who actually like writing code. There are many programmers out there who just can't problem solve either but are very good at following instruction - they can do the actual writing.

However, I have yet to find anything that matches the feeling of having what looks/feels/appears to be an insurmountable task ahead of you - a problem that someone says cannot be solved, and then you come up with the most creative solution to not only solve the problem, but do so, quicker, cheaper and easier than anyone else ever has.