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Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

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Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#1
I was let go from my last job because I couldn't fit into the "office culture", and now I'm really struggling to get a job because of "poor communication skills".

I've been looking for 4 months, with 90% of my rejections being something to do with my communication skills.

I feel worthless honestly, and the worst thing about all this is that there is really nothing can do to make my autism disappear.

And honestly, I don't even see why my autism is a problem. I've always seen my autism and quietness as my super power, and it drive me nuts that you people don't see that too.

I was going to ask for help, but realistically that's pointless - I won't change in any significant way. And yeah, I know, "just be good enough that they look past it".

Please just try to be more understanding. It genuinely upsets me because I'm a pretty good developer, yet I know people who are really quite terrible, but they can bullshit well so they're all doing better than me. And this is at your expense quite frankly. The dude writes terrible code, but he came across well, so obviously we hired him...

Oh, and you can all fuck right off with your office culture. Stop wasting yours and my time sending each other cat.gif and joking about how the German IT guy is a secret Nazi. It's not remotely funny, I can't even explain how mad it makes me that I was let go for not participating in this madness.

Urgh, autistic rant over. I've got work to do.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#2
Clearly you're angry. Your writing is clear. Is your verbal communication lacking in some way? I'm not familiar with how autism affects verbal communication, but let's just way it does. Well, written communication is crucial for most remote jobs. Yeah, some people like to spend a bunch of time in a video chat, but most value async text-based communication like IM or email. Seems like you'd be fine in that environment.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#4
Do you bring it up proactively? I'm not a HR manager so I cant say how appropriate it is but If I was interviewing someone and they let me know they have autism and it affects their communication skills I would be much more understanding than when I'm interviewing someone who just seems to have poor communication skills for no obvious reason.

Remote work might also be a good option. A part from the anger your written communication doesnt seem affected. I also understand not loving getting cat gifs but if that's part of the office culture you have to make some attempt to assimilate.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#5

Clearly you're angry. Your writing is clear. Is your verbal communication lacking in some way? I'm not familiar with how autism affects verbal communication, but let's just way it does. Well, written communication is crucial for most remote jobs. Yeah, some people like to spend a bunch of time in a video chat, but most value async text-based communication like IM or email. Seems like you'd be fine in that environment…

My verbal communication is basically non-existence. I struggle even with remote work (I've worked remotely previously), and finding remote work is extremely hard anyway. And basically impossible for someone who can't hold a Skype conversation.

What upsets me is that I harbour no dislike to people without autism. I don't understand a lot of your jokes. I don't understand a lot of your interests. But I try to be friendly in my own way. I try to smile when you say something that isn't funny.

But I don't get that same respect back. People rather simply reject me.

"He's weird".

"You need to work on your communication skills".

Fucks me off because I know people who are deaf in tech who can hardly talk and I've never heard someone say they need to work on their communication skills. Because they do.

I'm fed up with trying to be normal so people don't think I'm weird. And I'm fed up and trying to fit into "the culture". And I don't want to shoot some pool at lunch, I want to be left alone.

I just want people treat me with the same respect I treat them for being different to me.

So honestly yeah I am pissed off. I'm homeless now thanks to this constant shit. I can't even explain how fed up I am of being rejected for such a stupid reason.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#6

Do you bring it up proactively? I'm not a HR manager so I cant say how appropriate it is but If I was interviewing someone and they let me know they have autism and it affects their communication skills I would be much more understanding than when I'm interviewing someone who just seems to have poor communication skills for no obvious reason. Remote work might also be a good option. A part from the anger your written…

I don't say I'm autistic, no. I have wondered bringing it up, but I don't like the handy caps.

I never wanted extra time in exams. My brain works so well in so many wells thanks to my autism. I've genuinely never seen it as a drawback. The only time it's a problem is when people decide it's a problem.

And the problem isn't that I don't want to assimilate, I simply don't understand how. I don't know how to make a joke. Whenever I try to tell jokes I'm told my joke is weird, or offensive, or disrespectful. I don't understand the rules of humour so I shut my mouth and get on with my work.

I had a conversation the other day with my parents about how I should respond to "how's your day going?" When is it appropriate to be honest if you're having a bad day? How do I tell if someone is saying that to start a conversation, or just saying hi? It's tricky. So I say, "i'm fine". And then people tell me I'm being rude or laugh at me.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#7
Two questions for you - Is your autism medically "documented"? Are you applying in the US?

If both answers are YES then you have to mention it when you apply online in the disability section of the form. In the US it is required by law for companies to acknowledge disabilities. Or should I say, a company can easily get sued for discrimination. That could help you during the recruiting process, if your autism is recorded as a disability.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#8
post #7

Two questions for you - Is your autism medically "documented"? Are you applying in the US? If both answers are YES then you have to mention it when you apply online in the disability section of the form. In the US it is required by law for companies to acknowledge disabilities. Or should I say, a company can easily get sued for discrimination. That could help you during the recruiting process, if your autism is recor…

I've never been diagnosed, no, and I've never had any interest in doing so although I was often pushed to get a diagnosis in school/college. As I said in another comment it's only ever been a problem in my life when other people make it a problem for me.

A principle I will life and die by is that everything I have in life I've earned. I've never accepted any welfare, or any kind of extra help or support in any way my entire life. I was probably the only kid never to enter a cheat code on GTA.

I don't want a job because I'm filling the retard quota. I couldn't accept that. And either way, I'm quite capable of doing my job.

The only time it's really anything close to a disability is when I'm trying to explain some tech, or something like that. But I can do it just find if I'm given time, or pen and paper. But that's never been the issue. The issue has always been people disliking me in the office for not fitting in. Or not giving me a chance in interviews because I don't know how to correctly answer questions like, "what makes you excited?".

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#9
I'm going to toss this out in hopes that it will hope, though I fear that you may take my words wrong.

I understand that this is a rant, but I'm concerned about some of the words that you chose. Consider some of these phrases:

> And honestly, I don't even see why my autism is a problem. I've always seen my autism and quietness as my super power, and it drive me nuts that you people don't see that too.

> I was going to ask for help, but realistically that's pointless - I won't change in any significant way.

> Please just try to be more understanding. It genuinely upsets me because I'm a pretty good developer, yet I know people who are really quite terrible, but they can bullshit well so they're all doing better than me. And this is at your expense quite frankly. The dude writes terrible code, but he came across well, so obviously we hired him...

> Oh, and you can all fuck right off with your office culture. Stop wasting yours and my time sending each other cat.gif and joking about how the German IT guy is a secret Nazi. It's not remotely funny, I can't even explain how mad it makes me that I was let go for not participating in this madness.

When I read those (even knowing that this is a rant), I can't help but wonder if those attitudes come across while you're looking for work.

For example, I wonder how you would answer, "Why did you leave your last job?" Do you start to talk about the German IT guy who was a secret Nazi? Do you talk about how the team bonding was a waste of everyone's time? Does your disdain for culture come through?

Or, what happens if someone asks what your weaknesses are and how you plan to compensate for them? Do you say, "I'm autistic, but I won't ask for help because I won't change in any significant way"?

Do you understand my point here? Your communication skills may actually be fine, but perhaps your anger scares people away.

I'm not sure that you're really looking for advice, but I have a few pieces for you.

1.) Get your autism diagnosed and start looking into programs for autistic adults. This is absolutely critical.Here's the thing about autism. You understand certain things differently, but it's not like you have an inoperable stage four tumour. Autism doesn't mean that you can't change, it just means that you might have to work harder at things that come naturally to people who aren't on the spectrum. But, there's another side to that coin because people who aren't on the spectrum will have to work harder at things that come naturally to you.

Just because you get diagnosed, you don't necessarily have to fill (these are your own words) 'a retard quota'. However, a diagnosis will help you access some programs that will help make things easier for you.

One of my buddies is on the spectrum and he has an incredible amount of difficulty with sequences. This cat loves music though and wanted nothing more than to learn how to play guitar. But, everyone said, "no, it will be too hard for you because sequences are hard for you." Despite that though, my buddy learned how to play guitar and is currently playing with one hell of a good band.

2.) We all have struggles. You struggle with autism. I struggled with a terrible speech impediment. And others struggle with addictions, mental illness and a myriad of problems.

You'll be surprised by how compassionate people can be if you tell them that you struggle. Heck, my buddy the guitar player has learned to be pretty straight up with people when he doesn't understand what's going on. "Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I have autism and I don't understand what's expected of me."

It was harder than hell for him to start doing that, but he's been incredibly surprised by the results. Random people will say that they don't understand what's expected of them either, but they just fake it. Employers compliment him on his courage and say that he is a transformational influence in their companies. Co-workers tell him that he has changed how they view people on the spectrum.

And, do you know what? All he had to do was tell the truth...

You will be okay. You're obviously very smart and you have tremendous capacity. If I were you, I'd work very hard on the bitterness and consider getting some help. But, you'll be fine.

And for the love of all that is holy, don't let others change your opinion on yourself. Few people understand autism, but that's their problem, not yours.

Be safe and if you need a friend, my email is in my profile.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#10
post #9

I'm going to toss this out in hopes that it will hope, though I fear that you may take my words wrong. I understand that this is a rant, but I'm concerned about some of the words that you chose. Consider some of these phrases: > And honestly, I don't even see why my autism is a problem. I've always seen my autism and quietness as my super power, and it drive me nuts that you people don't see that too. > I was going t…

Thanks dude. That was nice to read.

No, I'm not very confrontational and in general I've learnt to act normal very well. If you met me at a meetup or something you probably wouldn't guess I'm autistic at all. I've honestly spent years working on my social skills and it's paid of quite well.

In interviews the issue really only comes in when I'm asked really vague questions like, "what gets you excited?" I don't really know how to answer those kind of questions so I start stumbling. I also have the same problem with certain technical questions. I was asked to explain regexs recently and I find that very hard because I struggle translating the conceptual ideas in my into words.

Also when I'm in an office I get quickly tired of pretending to be normal. If I'm having a rough day I don't have the energy to pull it off and then problems start cropping up.

I don't know your friend, but we sound different honestly. I pick up things insanely quick. Things like programming and maths just make sense to me. I don't need to get into special programmes because when working on my own I know I can out perform the majority of people. My issue is 100% with other people judging me for not being able to understand irrelevant things to my work such as social etiquettes and my slightly unusual methods of explaining myself.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm annoyed at the suggestion that I need special programs. Growing up I always loved being autistic because it made be able to do cool things like teach myself to code. I was always in top sets for subjects like physics, maths, etc and I was one of the strongest developers on my course in college and university.

I don't need help, I just need people to be understanding that some people like to be left alone and take a little longer to figure out a good way to express themselves. My issue has always been that people don't like that I'm anti-social and they don't have time for my less eloquent explanations.

Edit: Additionally, I do often say, "sorry I'm autistic" and ask for help. For example it's very common for me to say, "sorry I'm autistic, have I upset you?", or sometimes I will ask if they want me to stop talking. I find it very hard to read those things.

But in interviews I'd never mention I'm autistic. If I'm given a job I want to know it's because someone thinks I'm the best person for the role. I don't want sympathy. I just want people to stop being so judgemental towards me.

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