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Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

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Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

#1
My niece is 13 this week. For her birthday I've bought her a laptop and I'd like to get her into programming (I'm not a developer myself).

I was thinking of something like http://www.squeak.org/ or http://scratch.mit.edu/

What do you think?

Re: Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

#5
A few random suggestions. I don't actually know much about Squeak or Scratch, so those might be better options. YMMV, of course.

One way to sort of ease into the idea of instructing-a-computer-so-it-does-things is to make things in a context-free-grammar based system, like: http://www.contextfreeart.org/

I've found some people find it much easier than "real" programming, since it avoids control constructs and such. I personally actually find it a little harder, because I try to think of it in terms of operational semantics, and end up mentally reverse-engineering everything I write into the equivalent C code. I've had good luck introducing non-programming people to it, though; not tried with any kids; mostly computing-interested adults.

Processing is a relatively simple media-computing environment. Based on Java, but highly simplified and oriented towards 2d graphical applets: http://processing.org/

I personally learned on Logo, which I thought was nice. I'm not sure if there are good Logo implementations these days?

Re: Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

#7
Install XAMPP from Apachefriends.org and have her start PHP. It's what many schools use for their beginner classes. On Windows, I like PHPDeveloper personal edition for an IDE. It's cheap (or free, I can't recall).

PHP is mainstream, and since it's a web technology, she can likely show it off to her friends. It's not hard to find cheap PHP hosting if she ends up building something that she wants to put on the public-facing Internet for friends or strangers to use. XAMPP also comes with MySQL pre-configured, which is a bonus.

I cut my teeth on Logo and BASIC as a youngster. I wouldn't wish BASIC on anyone, and she's old enough that Logo would be boring.

Re: Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

#9
I think the most important part of your choice is to keep her motivated: So I would go with Squeak or Python. Squeak is great for learning programming; It is very easy to produce little games and things like this. Python is great if you want to use a lot of libraries and still want a clean programming language. Php is fine for web pages - if she loves to build them it is great, but the other languages are better suited for learning to programm. Bottom Line: I would go with squeak!

Re: Ask HN: Good programming language for kids

#10
I remember trying to learn C when I was twelve. The strange errors the compiler generated were way above my head, because the system was more complicated than I could understand at the time. Eventually, when I was 13 or 14, I learned a bit of VB, but not enough to be really useful. I think, however, that someone might have a decent chance of learning python, especially since you don't have boilerplate code. Also, if you are working directly with the interpreter you always know that it was the last thing you did that caused the error, so you don't have to hunt around (think attention span).
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