Hi previously I was a developer in academia and the expected work hours were pretty reasonable (Also reading books and papers was considered work). I just started at my first job at a company and the expected work hours seem much longer. (Also, reading a book isn't considered work) Are all software companies like this?
Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
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Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#2Not to be a smart ass, it is called work for a reason, and to be expected to put in 8 hours a day is a reasonable request from any employer. With that said, there is a difference between being "expected" to work 40 hours a week and being "expected" to work 80 hours a week. If you were coming to work for me I would be a little upset if you sat at your desk and read a book the entire time you were there. However, if you were working and using a book as reference to complete your work, well that's a different story.
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#3I read books on my tablet when I do cardio at the gym to square the circle between learning what I need for work and keeping in shape.
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#4Focus on what you're expected to deliver (e.g. some working software) and how you're expected to deliver it (e.g. being nice to colleagues, writing design docs, ...).
If you don't know what's expected of you, that's something you could discuss with your manager.
If you're doing what is expected of you (and being nice to colleagues etc.) or, ideally, exceeding those expectations, then you will probably enjoy your job more, and feel less pressure to conform to specific work hours.
Of course, different companies and teams/managers have different cultures. Also, in some countries you're expected to stay later than your manager. She, in turn, is expected to stay later than her manager.
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#5You didn't say what the work hours are so we can't tell you if they're normal. Right?
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#6Not to be a smart ass, it is called work for a reason, and to be expected to put in 8 hours a day is a reasonable request from any employer. With that said, there is a difference between being "expected" to work 40 hours a week and being "expected" to work 80 hours a week. If you were coming to work for me I would be a little upset if you sat at your desk and read a book the entire time you were there. However, if yo…
I'm talking more like 10-13 here...
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#7You didn't say what the work hours are so we can't tell you if they're normal. Right?
I've only been at this place for a week and a bit but it seems most people are working about 11 or 10 to 13 hour days.
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#8You didn't say what the work hours are so we can't tell you if they're normal. Right?
I've only been at this place for a week and a bit but it seems most people are working about 11 or 10 to 13 hour days.
Ouch, that's not normal. If that's not what you want from life, find a different company.
Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#9Re: Ask HN: Are there software companies that don't “make” you work all day long?
#10It depends on how tech savvy the managers are.
Part of doing the job as a programmer is research and design. You don't just sit down all day and write code, you have to write documentation, you have to do research to find ways around bugs, you have to design the UI and data structures.
For example I would write Pseudo code on paper to work out design flaws before I entered it into the computer. I would write Flow Charts and other things. I even developed my own method of developing data structures and database tables on paper as well.
When I got stuck I'd research things in a book, or I'd search for the answer on the Internet. Companies paid for a MSDN subscription and have to make it pay off by searching the knowledge base esp when dealing with API calls that change with each service pack. In using Visual BASIC 6.0 sometimes I'd have to ask a developer at Microsoft via MSDN when I found a bug in Windows or Visual BASIC itself that killed my project and find a way around it. Crystal Reports we used and talking to Seagate Software at the time was the only way to fix CR issues. We had an issue where if the user wasn't an Admin on a Windows PC it would show duplicate rows, and Seagate got a service pack out to fix that issue.
Everything I did on the Internet, on the phone, or reading books was job related and going towards solving problems and using resources. But my managers didn't always see that as work because they wanted me to solve the problems by myself, which would have taken a lot longer and impossible without a service pack to fix bugs.
I never read a book, used the Internet, or made phone calls for personal things, they were all work related.
Yet a service pack is like the size of a CD-ROM and takes five hours to download, so they noticed I was using 5 hours of Internet when that happened. (This was in the late 1990s when the Corporate Internet was slow).
Other programmers who didn't do the same things I did to solve problems, could not solve them and the projects got reassigned to me to fix them, because I was able to fix problems.
No matter how good you are, you will get stuck on some problem and need someone else's help to solve it. If it is a bug in the language or OS, you'll need a service pack or a way to get around it.
You managers might not always understand that you need to seek help by reading a book, looking in a knowdlgebase, or talking to a developer on the phone to solve things.
Your programs work on the old OS with the old service pack, but as soon as new ones come out they break compatibility and trying to figure out what changed without contacting the company that made the updates is really really hard to do.