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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#982
post #615

I have to confess, it really, really makes me pissed when other people on the team aren't putting forth the same effort. I'd say I work 40 hours a week at least, counting real actual work, and I'm on a project right now where I think the other person is dragging their feet and making almost zero progress, not communicating, not asking for help, etc. A large part of that is because this person is a little more junior,…

I am in a similar position but with multiple coworkers. 1/3 of the team works hard and effective, 1/3 standard and 1/3 barely works without delivering value. At the same time I am having a pretty hard time seeing 1/3 earning the same as I do while doing nearly nothing. It really annoys me on a regular basis and I don‘t think it‘s a healthy behavior either. Sometimes I wonder if they should get fired or if I undersell…

I was on a small team at an early-stage startup, and felt forced to do 7+ hours of good work every day due to pace and visibility.

As a self-proclaimed productive dev, it was pretty obvious who was slacking or incompetent, and I definitely had some dislike of them for that. It felt unfair that others could coast, or create buggy code and then spend time fixing it, while my higher quality output wasn't rewarded in a way I cared about ($$$). Knowing this was going on did also contribute in some way to demotivating me and maybe deciding to leave.

In the end, we are victims or volunteers. I volunteered for the position, I volunteered to stay to earn equity.

If we don't like something, we can always volunteer to fix our current situation, whether by negotiating or finding a better-suited role etc.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#983
post #954

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

What practical things can I do to get better at my job? Ive always been a procrastinator but since the pandemic I've become like op. Very little work on job, whole weeks where I don't do anything. It's double edged sword, I have rekindled some old hobbies but I feel a lot of guilt about not being good at my job. I get by just about at work some people love my work some people hate working with me. I would love to lea…

It's mostly about deciding what you want your life to be, and then that big decision impacts other decisions about your work life.

I grew up in a family where my parents worked normal (non-tech, non-professional) jobs and never talked about work when they were home. We would take cheap vacations in the summer for 3+ weeks and they never checked in at work to hear how things were going or whether or not the xyz project was approved.

If you work in technology, you're probably used to your work life spilling over, in terms of time, thoughts and concerns, into your life outside of work. Culture, which is a social phenomenon, has great effects on the lives of individuals, but there is usually ample room for the individual to decide what their approach and attitude will be.

People who hate working with you are a problem. It could stem from a cultural mismatch or from people who are better at their jobs than you are and aren't as inclined to work with someone on their level (I'm writing descriptively here, no judgment) or from a toxic environment, like some I've had the displeasure of finding myself in. What's going on there? Look at it honestly and without emotion, which is hard to do at first.

By observing and understanding how the world works, which is one of the most important skills you can possess, it is quite easy to observe what is the most common way to achieve a goal, to the point where it is sometimes surprising to see how delusional most people are. For example, if you want to build a muscular physique, it's easy to do the following: observe what most people who are muscular do - given some starting points (endo- or ectomorphic, tall/short, genetically weak or strong points) - and follow what they did at different stages of muscle development. But what you often see when you go to the gym is a large number of non-muscular people doing all sorts of bizarre exercises or protocols that people who have achieved success never did. Same with diets or learning or doing business.

And the same with career development. To get a, say, director position at Big Tech, say FAANG and company, the most common way is to move from IC to manager to director at a FAANG and co, either vertically within the company or horizontally with some possible down-leveling or a mix of the two. Now the second step is to look at how people are promoted, and it's a combination of technical skills, personality (someone has to promote you, remember, you're not promoting yourself), actions (e.g., backstabbing or turning the other way often works, this is unfortunately the world we live in, to the point where the "be nice" movement advocated by people in positions of high power makes me laugh, because to get to their position it's very likely they were only being nice in their minds. But I don't tolerate bad actions in my world), and timing. Do I have the technical skills? Do I have the personality? Do I have the right timing? Clearly, it's all situational, which is the second thing you should learn in combat sports (the first is being able to fight), i.e. you have to somehow adapt to the situation that arises in the fight (yourself and your opponent).

You might read this and say, no, it's not that easy. But actually it is, conceptually. Then, one sometimes cannot achieve the technical proficiency necessary for a certain position and peace. But at least one doesn't run in circles thinking that the secret to a great career is in adding brown sugar to coffee.

Then, one last (of many) aspect to consider is that new positions and advancements often don't provide a linear increase in "professional currency," but at the n increment, where n is much larger than 2. Say, you're working as an IC at the Nooneknows company with a certain skill set and you get by luck, skill and whatever else a position at a FAANG. In 6 months, you'll be contacted by 10-100 times the number of companies that were interested in you before. A good effort can be enormously rewarded.

But first, think about what you want to do with your life. You only live once, that will never change, and taking control of your life, forgetting as much as reasonably possible (we all want a piece of it) of validation from friends, family, neighbors and society at large, is the necessary first step toward a great, wonderful life.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#984
> cors - today is going to be bleak

Just looking at the phrase "No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' is present on the requested resource" makes me angry on behalf of new programmers everywhere. I wonder how many have gotten to that point in webdev and just been like "Fuck it, this isn't for me".

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#986
post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

There is even a story in one of the productivity books about how one of the most productive employees requested shower to be installed in his office since he was most productive in the shower.

But which book? Could confirm my method.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#987

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, we need to collectively recognise how much real work takes place in this mode. I once collaborated with a colleague to design and implement a data sync framework. For six weeks we chatted about it during our lunch break, while walking from the office to a Japanese takeaway and back again. We'd propose ideas and find weaknesses and flaws in them, and would spend our evenings thinking hard to come up with sol…

Just read an article about employers increasingly monitoring their WFH employees with software installed on their computers. This is the "sitting at a desk and typing" measure of productivity. How do they propose monitoring the "solving problems by thinking hard" measure of productivity?

They can't. They have to capitulate to the idea that thinking is work. Especially in knowledge work.

But then again, since thoughts are words, thinking can be translated into typing that is monitored: notes instead of code.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#988
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done. early in my career i once worked for a spinoff of a very large tech company and was involved in a collaboration with the mothership, so to speak. my boss pulled me aside and explained to me. "here's how this goes. time here does not work like time there does. what happens in one day here takes two weeks there, and if…

Absolutely mirrors my experience when our small company was acquired by a large multinational of French origin. Why is France significant? Because their corporate culture is extremely hierarchical and centralised, similar to how their country is centralised like few others. Used to be we could turn small web apps into production in the course of a week. Nowadays even the most minuscule of features of an existing app…

Sounds like successful bureaucracy to me. At some point, change is difficult for a large organism. It became large by doing what it is doing and doing that well. The reality is that change is oftentimes destructive; what is so much clearly "better" to you is not clearly better to the organism. Slowing things down, getting many people to consider the new, is all purposeful and quite useful in reality.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#989
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, ironically, much of the work that the "normies" do is something tech guys could to hundred times faster. It's stuff like manually copy-pasting numbers from a crappy proprietary software A to a crappy proprietary software B or entering numbers from some system to Excel while it could be done by just directly pulling the numbers from the database the system uses. Seriously, modern work is all about knowing what to…

I can never do tedious work quickly. As soon as I notice work that should be automated, I start cursing at the developer of the tool I am using for not offering an easy interface for me to plug into and just automate it, instead of having to rewrite the whole thing from scratch if I want to have it automated (and that's usually too time consuming, so I don't do it). So I'd be constantly unhappy doing it, which is a r…

Hello Necovek, I would like to connect with you on linkedin because I also understand and see this problem

This link shows a touchline between using api and not using api https://www.swyx.io/api-economy/

But how can we build some tool for telling product managers that they should fix there automating proces?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#990

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

Stupid and industrious is exactly the crypto/NFT population. They are smart in code, but zeros in financial literacy, and zeros in complex social dynamics - the perfect rubes to promote hazy, social frauds.

now now, be fair: they're zeros in code too
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