Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 974 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#961

Post by wreath »

yulaow wrote: post #745
offby37years wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a software engineer your leverage should be higher than near any other profession. This is why SV engineers are paid handsomely. Your productive output eclipses that of any profession without force multipliers. Your income should not be based on input (risk, comfort), but rather your output (scale, value).

Based on this premise any teacher should be payed an incredible amount of money considering they are literally creating the bases to allow professionals like us to generate our "force multipliers".

I absolutely agree that they should be payed the same way as SW.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#962

Post by jopsen »

joelbluminator wrote: post #81
jopsen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by switching to a better paying job you end up working somewhere that produces more value per engineer, which in turns makes the world wealthier.. which overall is good :) That said, I don't think it's just a matter of culture. Also just because capitalism likely makes the world better on average, doesn't mean we all have to go ferengi and dedicate our lives to pursuit of maximum profit :D (Perhaps there is a bal…

Huh? If he earns more at Pornhub he makes the world better? Even FAANG is debatable.

Hehehe, on average maybe? That said you probably shouldn't live your life by statistics.

Also note: I did advice against going all Ferengi :)

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#963

Post by jopsen »

joelbluminator wrote: post #114
jeofken wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defining “better” isn’t easy, but “more valuable” is a falsifiable measure. I hate Facebook and Google but they do provide a lot of value to their customers (advertisers)

Facebook's effect on society is still being studied, the jury is still out. It may very well be more damaging than doing good. Just because people are paying for something doesn't mean its doing anything good. Tobacco is a good example.

Like it or not, there is also a huge amount of legitimate interactions on facebook.

My dad didn't use internet forums before.. now he's on facebook groups about wood working -- I doubt the projects and reviews people in those groups share are fake news :)

Fact is: without facebook my dad probably wouldn't participate in any online community.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#964

Post by ptr »

mclightning wrote: post #568
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #457

As a contractor/freelancer one could earn €70 an hour if you’re decent. Earning over €100K a year can be achieved this way. Our rates are up to €100 an hour. The minimum rate we’re currently working at is 60

except most of it goes to tax, when you want to transfer money from your company account to personal. In case of Sweden, minimum %54 to pay salary to yourself from your contract/freelancing company. Then you pay %25 VAT when you buy anything. As an individual, you would pay a hefty %76 marginal tax in Sweden from that base earning. That also explains why salaries are lower. Because there are hidden costs to employer.

54% is maximum and if you have your own company you can optimize that. 76% marginal tax is incorrect. 25% VAT isn’t added on everything. Freelancing in Sweden is definitely a path for becoming wealthy.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#965

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

ABeeSea wrote: post #786
beagle3 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> contrary to what Europeans perceive, the healthcare system works very well for the upper middle class) ... until you get a really expensive chronic disease. And then it fails miserably. I know upper middle class parents whose kids got a disease which need ~$5000/month meds for a few years (and nontrivial infusion center costs on top). It worked ok for some, many had been informed that the insurance company decided…

Not defending the US healthcare system, but I’ve never heard of an insurance plan without an out of pocket maximum. For example, my plan has a 2k maximum for individuals and 4K for married couples. Combined with a health savings account (allowed to be funded pre-tax from both the employer and employee), I’ve generally put $1-2k a year in that during my 20s when I rarely needed medical expenses. I still haven’t had a…

Just out of curiosity. What would happen if, for any reason, you lose the capacity to work for a couple of years? Let's say that you have a bad accident that affects your hands, or you get a depression.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#966

Post by mclightning »

ptr wrote: post #964
mclightning wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except most of it goes to tax, when you want to transfer money from your company account to personal. In case of Sweden, minimum %54 to pay salary to yourself from your contract/freelancing company. Then you pay %25 VAT when you buy anything. As an individual, you would pay a hefty %76 marginal tax in Sweden from that base earning. That also explains why salaries are lower. Because there are hidden costs to employer.

54% is maximum and if you have your own company you can optimize that. 76% marginal tax is incorrect. 25% VAT isn’t added on everything. Freelancing in Sweden is definitely a path for becoming wealthy.

I am including employment tax in that %54 figure, which is a cost as well. So %31 + %33, ends up being roughly %54-53 on the total. Then add VAT.

I am running my own company, freelancing successfully for 2 years now. So I know these numbers from experience.

Yes, you can optimize the %33 out of the %54. %33 is minimum you can get, up to 42K sek salary.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#967

Post by fy20 »

Uberphallus wrote: post #504
fy20 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm almost certainly not going to see the same grocery store chains That's not really true. It's fair to say that a lot of supermarket chains have operations only in a single country, but there are quite a few multi-country brands as well which aren't uncommon. A few examples: Carrefour, Auchen, Lidl, Audi, Tesco, (Euro/Inter)Spar, Iceland, Rewe - and that doesn't include subsidiaries of the same company (e.g. ICA/…

> It's fair to say that a lot of supermarket chains have operations only in a single country, but there are quite a few multi-country brands as well which aren't uncommon. Actually it's fair to say most of the business is done by local chains, and Europe-wide operations are rather uncommon. From your mentions, I'd only consider to be "Europe-wide" Carrefour and Spar. Carrefour is everywhere (though their market strat…

Carrefour and Auchan don't exist in my country, but Lidl is one of the biggest supermarkets (#4, ahead of well established local brands) even though they only entered the market a couple of years ago. The #2 and #3 supermarkets are owned by Scandinavian supermarkets but rebranded - basically just a different name, same colours and style. The #1 is HQed here, but has a majority share of the market in neighbouring countries.

Tesco is big outside the UK and Ireland in a few Eastern European countries such as Poland and Hungary. I think they were the first hypermarkets in these countries. I've lived in Italy and Spain, and my local supermarkets there were Carrefour and Auchan.

So yes it varies... But my point was that if you actually look it's fairly easy to find a supermarket brand that's HQed in another country.

Maybe more common (where I am) in Eastern Europe compared to Western Europe, as these markets are younger, so it made sense for foreign brands to come when everything opened than establishing everything from scratch.

Of course it's not so integrated as the US - you explained this yourself, brands and marketing are tailored for the local market - but it's not so uncommon as OP suggested.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#968

Post by psychoslave »

kortilla wrote: post #956
psychoslave wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might guess that all the random labels you put before the numbers makes few difference. At the end of the day, it’s a large gap in incomes.

The point is that at this point Tesla itself could pay Elon Musk absolutely nothing. His stock appreciation as a shareholder is where the majority of his income is coming from. It has nothing to do with CEO compensation at that point. It has nothing to do with “labels”. There is a fundamental different between what a company pays its CEO and what the value of its shares provide through appreciation.

From a business account analytics point of view, the difference matters.

From a social analysis point of view of incomes inequalities, they are just random labels.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#969

Post by webmaven »

mc32 wrote: post #324
webmaven wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In totalitarian states, everyone is equally poor. Not quite. In totalitarian states, typically everyone's income is fairly equal. Wealth, however, is often another matter. In the soviet Union, party apparatchiks often had very nice dachas to live in, fancy cars, exclusive shopping venues with imported goods, vacations abroad, etc. But these things weren't necessarily purchased with disposable income, per-se. At lea…

I would quibble with the "fancy cars" part. Only the nomenklatura got government owned fancy cars and other perks --that reverted to the state if they lost the position. So it was a kind of state wealth that you temporarily had custody over.

To some extent, many of the "fancy cars" and other perks of capitalistic wealth are also things that one has only temporary access to by virtue of one's position. Without the position and the attached income, these can revert to the bank or other creditor.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#970

Post by webmaven »

imtringued wrote: post #803
webmaven wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > makes it much easier to found and grow a business without the threat of death > And yet you see a lot of Europeans and Canadians founders going to the valley for funding. Yet the opposite almost never happens. Just because it is easier to found and grow a business doesn't mean the environment is friendly to founding and funding a high-growth business. In fact, an environment that is friendlier to SMEs, lifestyle,…

I think in our current economical climate it is actually good if there are rich people willing to part with their money, even if it is just a moonshot. What I don't like is that the VC model often just devolves into the same boring strategy of outgrowing the competition. Lots of good companies died because of this and lots of bad companies are still alive.

I share your distaste, and even more so when outgrowing devolves into outspending and outlasting.
Post reply on HN