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Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

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Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#921
I don’t get it HN community - why is my below post flagged when the comments on this thread discuss attracting women in the context of how much money one makes...seriously? It’s frustrating that this community won’t tolerate any form of self reflection of itself on threads that otherwise are full of self reflection and personal drivel.

OG comment:

This thread has to be the most accurate and depressing reflection of the current state of professional software engineering I’ve ever read. Downvotes welcome.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree that Amazon has done meaningful work in the world of books. They've crippled the book industry. They've ran a ton of brick and mortar bookstores out of business, which has effectively destroyed community centers. There are other alternatives to Amazon that have "made the experience of buying books so much easier". Visit powells.com or alibris.com. And what they've done to the publishing industry…

> They've ran a ton of brick and mortar bookstores out of business, which has effectively destroyed community centers. Can you really blame Amazon for destroying community centers because they put bookstores out of business? Bookstores aren't the only viable community center, after all. Most cities and counties have a public library that's supposed to exist for the community's benefit. Additionally, in rural parts of…

I guess it depends on the place, honestly. The best communities I've been a part of -- in my short existence -- revolved around bookstores. Maybe that's subjective, but I can also argue that Signal, WhatsApp, etc aren't the only viable community centers.

Also, I'm from rural US, and those places do revolve around churches, but the pockets of enlightenment revolve around bookstores. IMO, a healthy community has a strong group of intellectuals. Intellectuals tend to gravitate to bookstores.

And yes, you can definitely blame Amazon for putting bookstores out of business. I'm too lazy to find stats to support that, but there is definitely evidence that Amazon is to blame.

And sure, libraries are for the community's benefit in an ideal world, but I'm talking about the real world.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#924

It’s unfortunate that OP has found themselves in such an unfulfilling position. May they find meaning and joy in their life.

But still,

This thread has to be the most accurate and depressing reflection of the current state of professional software engineering I’ve ever read.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#925
post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Uber driver in the midwest US can die from a simple treatable disease (or ruin himself financially) because he might not have health insurance. Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece. You can't just do a simple currency conversion to compare them, because the costs of living are very different. A senior dev in these countries will ha…

OK, broken US healthcare aside, even in above mentioned countries - uber/taxi drivers income is quite comparable to devs salaries.

I don't think you are correct.

Uber drivers make only slightly more than what is considered a living wage in most cities. For example, an Uber driver makes around $20 per hour in NYC. So maybe $40,000 per year.

Source: https://gridwise.io/how-much-do-rideshare-drivers-make-in-20...

However, that is NOT a lot of money.

    Is $15 an hour enough to live on? Not in New York 
    City. MIT researchers’ estimates of a true living 
    wage in New York City range from $16.14 an hour 
    for a single adult, to $21.55 for two working parents 
    with two children, to $39.93 for a single parent with 
    two children.
Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-fix-nycs-broken-...

Keep in mind that a one-bedroom apartment in NYC costs about $3,000 a month!!! An Uber driver would work 150 hours a month just to pay for that! He would still need to buy food, clothing, healthcare, etc. This person cannot remotely think of raising children as an Uber driver. Somebody making $40,000 per year in NYC would probably need to share housing with roommates or family.

Source: https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/3/18650949/nyc-rent-prices-zump...

Are developers in other countries able to afford their own apartments? It looks like senior developers in Athens, Greece make about €36,500/yr.

Source: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/athens-senior-software-en...

However, cost of living in Athens is so much lower, it is not even funny. It looks like a 1BR apartment costs more like €500-800. This seems easy to afford for a senior developer. At least, it is much easier than our poor Uber driver in NYC.

Of course, I just picked Athens as one example. But are you telling me there are places in Europe where senior developers can't even afford their own apartments?!

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#926

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

"If you stay at Google, make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life. If I'd've stayed, I could have comfortably raised some kids with my wife by now - but that's still on the todo list." THIS all the way. When we are young, we think that we will be remembered by the company that we worked for and the people that we worked with. The sad truth is that in 99.9999% none of those people will rememb…

Hi there, I can relate to a lot of what you said. I too fell very hard into alcoholism while trying to balance my performance at my fairly high stress job. I won't say my alcoholism was caused by my job, it was bound to happen for me regardless of any job. Anyhow...

Just logged in to say, there's a lot of us out here in the world. You're not alone. I've lost a cushy job due to it, lost more than one actually. I guess all I'll say is that it's possible to get out of that hellhole, you'll get there one day. And as someone else said, the fact that you talked about all this is a big deal. It means a lot. I'm rooting for you. If you ever want someone to talk to, let me know!

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#927

I don’t get it HN community - why is my below post flagged when the comments on this thread discuss attracting women in the context of how much money one makes...seriously? It’s frustrating that this community won’t tolerate any form of self reflection of itself on threads that otherwise are full of self reflection and personal drivel. OG comment: This thread has to be the most accurate and depressing reflection of t…

Some possibilities:

- it's against the guidelines to complain about downvotes, and inciting them like you did amounts to the same thing;

- your comment is a low-content swipe at an entire industry, containing little that could lead to a productive discussion.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#928

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

> make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life Ironically the Bay Area is among the worst places on Earth for improving your social life if you're straight and male. I noticed that you don't live in the Bay Area, you're married, you probably meant a much broader meaning of "social life", so your experiences are likely very different. But the typical clean cut, well-spoken, hard working, respect…

Here is my advice, as a married engineer, for those who are having difficulties in this area:

1. Your fatalistic attitude about m/f ratios (or whatever sexual orientation you fancy) is the least helpful and accurate response you could possibly have to dating travails. This is not a game. Nobody's keeping score. Statistics by itself won't land you the relationship you crave.

2. On the flip side, finding a relationship isn't just a test you need to hack. There's no formula to success. Stop thinking that a good salary, or being clean-cut, or avoiding substance abuse, are what you need to land a date – regardless of where in the world you look! For one thing, people date against these types all the time. For many other potential partners, they're table stakes at best.

3. You will have the best luck if you think of your potential romantic partner not as an automaton to be gamed, nor as a resource you ought to be entitled to, but simply as a human being with interests and needs that may align with yours, or not. Forget salary. Forget trying to look interesting. Be genuine, and care, and look for partners who appreciate that.

3a. (corollary) If you think of potential partners as only interested in some Scandinavian ideal that is tall, blonde, good-looking, and makes way more than you, then you are almost certainly projecting your own shallowness and anxieties onto them. You are failing to engage them as human beings. Stop doing that.

3b. (corollary) If you think female software engineers are just not cut out for this engineering stuff as a whole, you are probably going to have a really rough time trying to court them -- to say nothing of how miserable you are likely to make them. It will be nigh impossible for you to engage them as human beings with interests that deserve your full respect and support.

4. If you can't find the partners you want on Tinder, or in the marketing org at work, then (and it kind of dumbfounds me that I should have to explain this) don't look for a date on Tinder! Or in the marketing org at work! Get out in the world. Make connections. Join clubs. Have friends introduce you to friends. Stop thinking like a Silly Valley hacker, and start thinking like a human being.

5. Stay far away from Jordan Peterson, MRA, red pill, and all of that. It's not that there isn't a good idea or two in there somewhere, but it's all drowning in a toxic stew of entitlement, self-loathing, and objectification of women that won't get you where you need to go. If you can't discern between the good stuff and the bad stuff, best to steer clear altogether. Go read some Anne Lamott or something and flush that stuff out of your system.

6. If it doesn't work out, move on. Do not come crying to HN about how tough engineers in Silicon Valley have it (because facts!). Do not obsess over them and hope they'll turn their eye later on. C'est la vie! Be the troubadour who sings about their romantic woes with a twinkle in their eye.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women find men with more money to be more attractive. It isn't the only factor, but it is a significant factor like for example height. > "A man can move himself two points higher on the attractiveness scale we used if his salary increases by a factor of 10," study author John Speakman told The Times. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/01/women-are-more-...

I found my wife when I was unemployed. I wouldn't have it any other way. As a result, I remind myself to never forget it, and be extra good as a husband. Relationships are hard enough, if you're using your income (I had none, was on unemployment), or inheritance (I have none) as a carrot, you're in for a rude awakening someday. Apologies to Red Green, but while I'm not wealthy, I'm just a run of the mill software dev…

I'm mostly impressed that anyone on this hellsite is paraphrasing Red Green.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#930
post #511
post #13

It's sad and revealing to see the other comments here. Many of them say, don't seek fulfillment in your job, just keep on cruising. What a change from the exciting atmosphere of the 2000s. Seems like software engineering has become a safe, dull career nowadays. Don't listen to them. Your 20s are the time to learn, push yourself and discover who you are. Autopilot is for middle age.

> Your 20s are the time to learn, push yourself and discover who you are. I agree with this, but it's not going to happen with any job. You'll never discover yourself sitting in an office. If you look at jobs as a means to an end to let you live you're real life I think your better off. At this point in my life, an "exciting" software job is for suckers

Well, exciting can mean different things. I have a job where I never know what I'll be doing at 2PM when I walk in at 8AM.

AND, I am not a sucker.

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