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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#901

Post by iosono88 »

herghost wrote: post #416
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#903

Post by dkn775 »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #502

I wonder if there is a bias towards WFH on HN because the type of person most likely to like WFH is also the kind to post a lot on internet message threads. I think most people feel most productive spending at least some time in the office with other people, face to face. Further, I assume many people are like me and feel like some pressure to actually go to the office is good, or I'd too often make the short term ea…

Related, in my city (I sit on some citizens advocacy groups for public transit) - I’ve noticed the city’s planners that work at the department of transportation are still full remote after all this time. Almost all of the work this department has been undertaking has stripping half the lanes from MAJOR surface streets and putting in bike lanes nobody uses. The bike community is very active online and knows how to brigade people. I wonder if being remote all this time has made it so that they are hearing the loudest voices (bike advocates) and not talking to working people who have to commute everyday (online these people get bridgaded by bike people, they are also not as active on social media)

Basically think of it was having your worldview warped by r/fuckcars

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#904

Post by rakejake »

capableweb wrote: post #239
garciasn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a Sr. Director. There is nothing but non sense in any claims that say random shout outs as people are breezing between one unnecessary meeting and another are useful. It just doesn’t happen. The only useful conversations are thoughtful, planned, and collaborative. Almost never what happens in a hallway nor in most meetings, frankly. Let’s dispel with any of this outdated thinking. Remote work is here to say and i…

Probably depends on what kind of problems you're working on. If your problem to solve is "Raise this KPI X percent until Y", then probably yeah, wouldn't matter too much. But if you're doing fundamental research or trying to find grander ideas, then I believe it has some merit. One example is Bell Labs, which architectured their offices in order to facilitate random meetings between people: > However, almost as many…

If I was working in Bell Labs, I promise I'll be in office before the janitor. Thing is most us don't work in Bell Labs.

Ultimately, only the social aspect (building relationships, small talk with coworkers) remains. This should not be completely discounted, but everyone should do an analysis of what they are willing to go through to be in office. A 20-30 minute commute or a slightly longer public transit ride where you are assured of a seat? Sure, office will be worth it. 1+ hour each way in bumper-to-bumper traffic? Might as well WFH.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#905

Post by pc86 »

DougN7 wrote: post #833
pc86 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they aren't getting stuff done, that's its own conversation. Whether they have a second (or third, or fourth) job is irrelevant.

They weren’t getting stuff done, because they weren’t putting in the time to get it done, because they were splitting their time between two jobs.

That's my point though. It isn't "oh they had two jobs so they got fired," it's "they weren't performing so they got fired."

Plenty of people with one job don't perform and get cut. I've worked with people in the past who I knew had multiple FT jobs, or a FT job and a very demanding contracting schedule, or whatever, and had no trouble doing their work in a reasonable timeframe.

This whole idea that it's wrong or bad to have two FT jobs just smells like some middle manager feeling like they "own" their employees. I'm glad to see the culture has shifted somewhat and people are starting to see how ridiculous that mindset is.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#906

Post by Jorengarenar »

asdadsdad wrote: post #481
camgunz wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a symptom of societies that require you to work way too much and get everything (status, health care, socialization) from your job.

Would you like college to be remote too? School? Let's all wake up in our pijamas, hop on a zoom and live most of our lives like that?

Yes! Yes! So much yes!

It's time saving AND money saving

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#907

Post by fennecfoxy »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

As someone that has worked in the office and now from home I wouldn't consider making "friends" at the office to be a substitute for making friends outside of work.

Check some of the event type apps such as meetup, they usually have quite a few fun things on there with cool people to meet doing all sorts of hobbies.

Then again, it is true that tech can be quite lonely and solitary work, so as you mentioned a career shift may be in order.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#908

Post by fennecfoxy »

i_r7al wrote: post #679
krippe wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

same to your argument, why is it my problem that you live far away from work, that you need to hassle and lose hours of your day commuting? live right next to work. It's not our problem that it's a hassle to you. Same if you have kids .. etc. It's not our problem. It's comfortable for YOU to work remotely but it's more comfortable to ME to work from office. Comfort here is always subjective to the choice you prefer.

Lmao that's not an equivalent argument at all.

One is you _forcing_ me to do something (come into the office). The other is me not forcing you to do anything. The company is the one making you stay at home.

Sure, we all go back to work in an office. Hurray! Is the company going to force everyone there to be best buddies with you as well? What if nobody in the office likes you? Is it now company policy to be friends with everyone?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#909

Post by fennecfoxy »

As a counterpoint, I (like many other) love working from home.

I still get to see colleagues maybe once every few months for an all-hands/drinks after, and I consider some colleagues to be friendLY, but I wouldn't consider myself friends with them; my friends are the people that I have around every week for movie nights/gaming sessions. Colleagues can become one of those people but they generally do not (& in fact probably like most people I haven't stayed in contact with the majority of people from previous jobs).

In terms of mental health: I feel much better working from home for so many reasons, I don't have to commute so I can get a little bit of extra sleep when needed, nor am I contributing to mass pollution of the environment with my needless travels. I can have packages delivered and be there to collect them, tidy the house or cook myself a proper lunch over my break. I can do other chores like put washing on in the morning and be able to hang it to dry once it's done. When I'm being social in the evening we can start a lot earlier; no need to wait for everyone to get back to their respective homes, shower and get ready and then travel all to one place - because they're already at home. If I'm feeling ill, but still ready to work rather than going to the office and giving everyone a cold, or staying at home on a sick day and being bored out of my mine I can still just work. I can itch, scratch, cough, blow my nose, fart, sit in a relaxed manner without social repercussions. I can control my working environment in totality - if I want to listen to music on a speaker I can, if I want to put my desk next to my window I can, if I hit a brick wall and want to take a quick breather to make myself a coffee and decompress for 10 minutes then I can do that without looking "lazy".

I do still think for more junior developers that it's important to have an "office day" once a week or fortnight especially for mentoring purposes.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#910

Post by thenoblesunfish »

dkn775 wrote: post #903
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #502

I wonder if there is a bias towards WFH on HN because the type of person most likely to like WFH is also the kind to post a lot on internet message threads. I think most people feel most productive spending at least some time in the office with other people, face to face. Further, I assume many people are like me and feel like some pressure to actually go to the office is good, or I'd too often make the short term ea…

Related, in my city (I sit on some citizens advocacy groups for public transit) - I’ve noticed the city’s planners that work at the department of transportation are still full remote after all this time. Almost all of the work this department has been undertaking has stripping half the lanes from MAJOR surface streets and putting in bike lanes nobody uses. The bike community is very active online and knows how to bri…

A bit of a stretch IMO. I think you're onto something in that another reason I think WFH is a louder viewpoint is that they feel like they aren't the mainstream, just like the bike people. But the bike people have a strong excuse for activism in that their lives are threatened daily by cars. I wish I could ride my bike to work but it's too dangerous and stressful - more bike lanes would help and I support them ripping out parking places and lanes in my city.
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