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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#901

Post by 70jS8h5L »

lta wrote: post #490
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #41

I have never done what you describe, except perhaps in times of illness when it was understood that working less was a reasonable accommodation (in that particular case, I had leftover brain fog from general anesthesia). I've never heard of any colleagues doing it either. I would never snitch if it happened, but I would certainly consider that person untrustworthy or think that they have an undisclosed condition that…

I'm happy to finally read a comment that say this isn't a good or normal thing. I was starting to feel a bit of despair. I don't think I've done that much more that you seems to do but I've certainly seen a lot of people do it and it's always been pissing me off. I've always wondered how the world even works when I consider how much I've seen people do that at every level and at every kind of job. Dear original post…

I understand the negative reaction, but I'm not sure I agree with the following:

>Dear original post author, you really need to start doing something that you enjoy or that motivates you. You can also try to structure your life in a way that allows you to not work when you don't feel like you can or will be efficient.

May I ask why? The OP doesn't suggest anywhere they are unhappy. Presumably, they have a very good work-life balance, seemingly leaning toward the 'life' side of the equation. They presumably have a lot of time to themselves, to enjoy as they see fit. Furthermore, they say that their performance reviews range from good, to great. So if all the above is true, both parties seem to be happy with the arrangement.

I am in a similar position, and I think it boils down to not relying on my work for personal satisfaction or happiness. I work to live, not live to work. I provide a good service to my employer, and I believe my value is in my overall output, not overall input. When I am needed, I work hard enough to achieve the end goal. Otherwise, I work enough to satisfy my employer, regardless of how long that takes. My relationship with my employer is transactional, and I see no moral obligation to work beyond what is absolutely necessary - providing I do enough to satisfy my employer.

I do however understand the mindset of someone who is motivated and driven by work and their career. If that's what floats your boat, more power to you. That's not everyone though, and as long as the person is still providing enough value to someone that their salary is still a worthwhile investment - hey ho!

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#902

Post by astrange »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #528
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My g/f earns about a third of what I do while actually working a tough, stressful job in full time" There is only one thing i learned, life is deeply unfair, meritocracy is a myth, and noone knows why most things are the way they are.

I would suggest that you keep studying life. From what I've learned: life was never promised as being fair. Civilization is a thin veneer over the Jungle, but it does try (without ever achieving 100% success), to provide fairness. One can debate where in the world Civilization is thriving vs. struggling (it's mostly struggling). Meritocracy does exist and does work, except where it is undermined (i.e. "Equity", or as…

The word "meritocracy" was invented for a book about how it doesn't exist and would be a bad idea if it did.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#903

Post by icedchai »

khazhoux wrote: post #480
omnicognate wrote: post #39

Software development isn't a matter of sitting down and generating a fixed amount of code per hour. The rate of writing code is hugely variable. It's not unusual for most of my "productive" (as in typing actual code) time to be concentrated in a few particular days in a month. The time not spent typing (or being in meetings, doing admin, etc) isn't actually "unproductive" though. It's mostly spent solving problems, a…

> Software development isn't a matter of sitting down and generating a fixed amount of code per hour. The rate of writing code is hugely variable... The time not spent typing (or being in meetings, doing admin, etc) isn't actually "unproductive" though. All true statements, but that's not what we're talking about. OP recognizes that he works 5-10 hours a week, and effectively blows the rest of the day off. Reminds me…

1) How did you let this go on for 10 months?

2) If it was so easy to fix, why didn't you do it yourself? Too many meetings?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#904

Post by icedchai »

shinryuu wrote: post #824
mrozbarry wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this 2-question test is very accurate. To add to this, even if for a time, you can increase your productivity, sometimes that's not sustainable. There's nothing wrong with having ebbs and flows. On days when you have a larger workload of smaller tasks, you may find yourself to be incredibly productive, and days when you have smaller workloads, or larger tasks, and you may be less productive. The thing is, if…

It's certainly not your boss's job to ensure that you are compensated fairly.

Often the opposite. They get kudos for keeping costs down.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#905

Post by hattori_hanzo »

markb139 wrote: post #811
ploxiln wrote: post #717

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

I’ve worked with a genuine 0.1x developer. Not only were they unproductive (which is fine if you are new or inexperienced in an area), but they actually reduced the productivity of others in the team. I think sometimes this was deliberate as a plan to get the team reassigned. Luckily I was a contractor and could largely ignore the politics and just get on with work.

This is a -1.0x developer.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#906

Post by pkrznaric »

icedchai wrote: post #900
theshrike79 wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other disconnect is that they can do their work in 30-60 minute bursts (meetings). We cannot. Some things require multiple hours of uninterrupted concentration and if my calendar looks like someone fired a shotgun filled with 30 minute meetings at it, I can't achieve that.

I sometimes feel like I'm trying to squeeze "real work" in between meetings and other interruptions. It's almost absurd.

This is a weird take, but as a junior developer, I find I'm more productive on the days with meetings because I'm 'forced' to squeeze in the 'real work' rather than just being scared.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#907

Post by pcthrowaway »

CRConrad wrote: post #898
pcthrowaway wrote: post #173

I've been there. Maybe not 5 hours a week but certainly 10. I was in a small company that got acquired, and the organizational bloat really killed my productivity. Having to deal with paperwork for payroll and pointless meetings was a distraction from the actual work. I think this contributed to a creeping burnout, which led to me actually working 10 to 25 (tops) hours per week for maybe a year or two. Eventually I w…

> I only run my time tracker when I'm actually working, and in a week I might have 2 to 4 hours of meetings Are the meetings mandatory for getting your work done? If not, skip them. (If you're tempted to reply "I can't", they're mandatory.) If they are, they're work, so run your timer. Same goes for a lot of other stuff you're probably doing and not timing.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I'm definitely billing for the meeting time. They're absolutely mandatory as that's generally when we talk about requirements and challenges

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#908

Post by sdwr »

abyssin wrote: post #828
jesuis_14 wrote: post #200

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

I've met people like you, some as employees, but most as coaches. I believe their role is somehow religious, priest-like: they are able to occupy a spot between leadership and workers to embody the ability to believe in what the company is doing. I think your role is perfectly summarized by your last sentence. You role is to be the person who says: "I'm enjoying the splendid world we are lucky to live in." I envy you…

This is it!

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#909

Post by CRConrad »

khazhoux wrote: post #513

Yes, your bosses have been too incompetent to notice. Yes, if you only put in 5 hours, you are not delivering at your full potential. You are very unlikely to be delivering "10x Developer" work. I have no idea what your company size is, but I would wager that the top developers at my workplace land 10x as much code as you (and solid, well-tested, and efficient code). Yes, you are lazy. I don't know what else to call…

> You are very unlikely to be delivering "10x Developer" work.

The OP never said he thought he did. He was speculating if perhaps the reason he got good reviews (for a "1× developer") was because he is a "10× developer" delivering at 0.1× of his capacity, which works out to "1×".

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#910

Post by omar12 »

ploxiln wrote: post #717

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

> Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality work a week I'd have no complaint.

This has been my philosophy, as long as a developer is not making me do more work, I won't mind.

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