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Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

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Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#91
While there are a number of long-winded arguments that could be made in favor of X vs. Y, Mac vs. Windows or otherwise, it's hard to argue against the simplicity of the OS X platform.

Windows is inherently high maintenance in my experience unless you keep your installed applications to a very specific short list. Uninstalling software, or worse, drivers, can be an exercise in frustration.

I've never had an issue removing software on OS X as applications are generally quite well behaved or they're effectively managed by the Darwin Ports system.

It's also great that doing source installs on OS X is trivial. I don't think the same can be said for Windows. Tradition is to go the binary installer route there, and there's so many badly written installers.

While I respect those that choose to use a Linux-based desktop, as it can be quite a chore to keep up to date and tricky to get different apps to work together politely, I'd say that approach only works for people with intimate familiarity with the various quirks and caveats of their distribution. To get something like Debian, Ubuntu or Gentoo running in top form takes talent.

Making Windows into a productive development environment can be just as much of a challenge, too, and there's some things that can never change. The registry is a persistent horror, drive letters and backslashes in paths are an extreme nuisance, and the second-class status of things like a proper command line shell and compiler are just examples of my grievances with Windows.

While it's possible to glue together a workable environment in Windows, especially if it's just for something simple like PHP + MySQL, once you really want to stretch your legs and be more adventuresome you may run into trouble.

Although it could be fanboyism, 99% of the people I see at web-biased conferences are on Mac machines. It's the singular dude using the Dell who's doing the "think different" thing.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#92
post #6

The only disadvantage of picking a Mac is that (unless they spring for a Mac Pro) you can't stuff it to the gills with RAM. Until the latest generation of consumer Macs the limit was 4gb, though now if you spend $500 you can get 2x4gb DDR3 for an iMac or Macbook (though the Macbooks can only address 6gb). In the PC world, you can get 4x4gb DDR2 for a desktop Core2 motherboard for $350, or 6x2gb DDR3 for a new Nehalem…

Buying extra RAM from Apple is for the birds, really. You can buy third party RAM for cheaper and install it yourself, no problem.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#93
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say upgrading every 6 months is low maintainence? Not to mention having new versions of everything pushed to you every week. Sorry, but I just don't have the bandwidth for that kind of thing. If you had said Debian, I would have agreed, but Ubuntu is just a pain to maintain. I use PCLinuxOS on my PC. So far, I don't have any qualms. Simple, easy to use and new releases come out when the developers feel the time i…

There are the versions that are supported for 4 years. Boradband internet is good if you are running Ubuntu, that is true, but the actual effort of updating is not so bad (you could also automate it). I have not yet run updates on my MacPort installation, but I would expect similar updates to Ubtuntu, except taking much longer (as MacPorts seems to compile everything on my Notebook, rather than downloading binaries).…

I don't know how the project is organized internally, but as a user it seems to me that the Ubuntu guys have no fixed schedule for pushing new updates. I will have updates to a few libs in the morning, then another, much larger update in the evening, followed by another small update next morning. If I don't install the updates, they pile up over time. These days, if I ever end up using Ubuntu, I never update anything unless it's something I need (eg, new version of Python, Emacs etc.).

I don't want new software as soon as it is released. I can do without bleeding edge software. I just want a safe, stable distro.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that "PC" has two meanings then. I'm going for "non-Mac PC", since that's what the title implies by separating Macs from the rest of PCs, and because I don't feel sensitive to exclude a huge set of possibilities.

It definitely has two meanings in the same way that "hacker" does and it is all contextual. If I hear hacker outside of this website I usually assume it is being used derogatorily. In the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" context there is no confusion what PC means. In Hacker News context I can understand how the term PC might be ambiguous. I am really arguing that at this point though even hackers are calling Windows machines P…

Exactly, that's why I assume everyone who is on Hacker News is aware of the Linux branch of operating systems, and at least isn't naive enough not to consider them in this kind of choice.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#95
1) You just did.

2) Intel/Mac or Intel/Linux, so you can run IE6/7 in a VM/Wine. Macs are lower maintenance.

3) TextMate/Coda or Xcode (or Scribes in Gnome) will be your definite friends, as well as Terminal and Firefox/Safari's debugging features. Python and the relevant libraries come with both systems and are easy to add to.

4) Would not recommend any Windows version for doing either development or design. Or anything mission-critical, for that matter. All the software you need comes with the Mac in the "Developer Tools" package on your Leopard DVD or in the public repositories for your Linux distro. You'll find many more choices are available, and you may even fall inlove with some.

Major disadvantages of a Mac over PC would be that the hardware is mostly set in stone at the time of purchase, which can, even if rarely, become a nuisance. There is some very strong classic gaming going on on the platform, but new titles often go on by not noticing OS X, which can be a bummer if you like your machine to be your do-everything, including being a gaming console. There are no disadvantages in relation to development, however.

And now for something completely different: don't let them buy you a Mac if you won't own it when they do. That is, there will most probably come a point when you'll want to own it.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#96
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are the versions that are supported for 4 years. Boradband internet is good if you are running Ubuntu, that is true, but the actual effort of updating is not so bad (you could also automate it). I have not yet run updates on my MacPort installation, but I would expect similar updates to Ubtuntu, except taking much longer (as MacPorts seems to compile everything on my Notebook, rather than downloading binaries).…

I don't know how the project is organized internally, but as a user it seems to me that the Ubuntu guys have no fixed schedule for pushing new updates. I will have updates to a few libs in the morning, then another, much larger update in the evening, followed by another small update next morning. If I don't install the updates, they pile up over time. These days, if I ever end up using Ubuntu, I never update anything…

I think the updates are all security updates, which I personally want to get as soon as possible. It's true that a lot of times it seems like software I don't need, but who can tell in today's complex software environments? Maybe some other program I need relies on the program that I don't seem to need.

It's actually one thing that might speak against Ubuntu that for every release they freeze the version of the software version. At least that is my understanding. It is of course possible to install newer versions, but it would be more complicated than just using the package manager.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#97
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that we're all getting a little too pedantic here. The point is it's basically all the same hardware. You can buy anything and put any OS on it, although it's not so nice to put OS X on hardware that didn't come from Apple.

That's my point: "Mac PCs or non-Mac PCs".

Or simpler: 'Mac, Linux or Windows?'

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#98
post #70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tiled wm like ion3, wmii, dwm open new windows automatically maximized no need to use mouse to scroll, move, resize, min, max window ... huge time saver

As a long-year ion3 user I'd like to second that. The productivity boost is comparable to moving to vim/emacs from notepad.

Does ion3 handle standard .desktop shortcuts? A lot of the smaller WMs (with the exception of XFCE) want to re-implement launchers for every app.

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#99
post #70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tiled wm like ion3, wmii, dwm open new windows automatically maximized no need to use mouse to scroll, move, resize, min, max window ... huge time saver

As a long-year ion3 user I'd like to second that. The productivity boost is comparable to moving to vim/emacs from notepad.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: MAC vs PC for a developer?

#100
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is as low maintenance as it gets imo.

You say upgrading every 6 months is low maintainence? Not to mention having new versions of everything pushed to you every week. Sorry, but I just don't have the bandwidth for that kind of thing. If you had said Debian, I would have agreed, but Ubuntu is just a pain to maintain. I use PCLinuxOS on my PC. So far, I don't have any qualms. Simple, easy to use and new releases come out when the developers feel the time i…

FWIW, Apple also pushes out hundreds of megabytes of updates I don't even need. At least the apt-based Linux distributions only try to update packages you have.
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