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Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#91
post #14

It's simply divided. With every such division A vs. B, the A team thinks HN is anti-A and the B team thinks it's anti-B. This is an invariant. You can see from the following megathread, currently on the front page, that HN is by no means anti-AI: Ask HN: What was your "oh shit" moment with GenAI? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48406174 . Sometimes it just takes the right initial condition (e.g. title) to brin…

It’s not even a dichotomy, A vs B, especially when you consider “AI” is incredibly poorly defined. There are many new technologies available, and I have nuanced opinions about all of them.

I’m happy that my friend who works in plastics manufacturing can move his monstrosity of an Excel spreadsheet to something more predictable and maintainable. I’m deeply annoyed by my coworker who’s trying to put a chatbot in our UI.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#92
Are you really surprised people feel this way? People have pigeonholed themselves into this field and now they find themselves horseshoe makers in this new age. It is scary and concerning. People do have legitimate fear. The whole pitch with AI isn't really that it empowers you to make some CRUD app easily. It is that eventually, sometime very soon, people will wise up to the fact that prompting is not a six figure job. It can be done by desperate low skilled people halfway across the world. Eventually those people will also hit the block.

I think people who aren't scared right now aren't really considering the larger implications of what is actually being pitched. The fact that the AI evangelicals don't realize that they too have no moat is going to be so ironic if only it wasn't so sad what is actually happening.

I mean, we are devaluing humanity. That is what these tools are promising really. It isn't just software. It is art. It is sales. It is poetry. It is C suite. It is filmaking. It is surgery. Every job there is, is at risk. Maybe not tomorrow, but on the horizon. The remaining jobs on earth will become the next target to automate and remove humans out of existence. An ever larger target until there are no targets left but AI controlled companies infighting among eachother for the energy coming from the sun and the nutrients in the 6 inches of topsoil.

Earth will be for the birds and the machines by the end of the century I'm guessing. Keeping us alive will be seen as a liability and a great risk to power structures. If we are allowed to live, and that is a huge if, we will probably devolve back into the hunter gatherer stage, fearful of the machine gods and their robot soldiers and temples of data and compute.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#94
post #63

It seems weird to be "pro-AI" or "anti-AI" in general. It's a tool. It's like saying construction workers are pro-hammer

People definitely have preferences of tools. For your construction analogy, I'm anti hammer. I prefer screws in almost every instance where a nail could be used, and hammers aren't the right tool for screws. Hammers suck.

Back to AI, it's a tool, and you can definitely be for or against it. Someone against AI might prefer other tools, like a canvas, camera, word doc, or visual studio (depending on the application they could be using the AI tool for)

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#95
post #28

> They care that the product works This reminds me of Anthropic's post where they say they ship 8x as much code as they used to. And I stopped to consider how many times I've used an app and thought, "You know what this needs? More code!"

I joined a team where the previous boss measured productivity by LOC on a weekly basis in public.

This team eschewed libraries and shared code. Copy/paste everywhere.

Every defect had to fixed in 100+ mini-applications. It was a telecom MMI product.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#96
post #9

There are two different crowds using "AI": - One crowd is using to research algorithms, libraries, write boilerplate code, write test harnesses, introspect and integrate with APIs, do hands-off refactoring, and automating what would otherwise be boring tasks. They still think about architecture, best practices, understanding things in detail and the general shape of the solution is in their hands. - Another crowd is…

Are we including just technical people in these crowds? Because there's a third crowd: everyone else/the general public that are standing up vibe coded websites and don't give a hoot how things work in the background or know as long as money is coming in. There are people that are using AI and thinking less and less causing their brains over the long term to become more inelastic. We're in for a very, very painful fu…

I’m working with an ideas guy, no skills and no capital but for the first time can deliver code

He wants my tech expertise, his code is spaghetti, he is making all the mistakes, he is experiencing AI psychosis, his AI makes md files warning him that its all going to burn him which he forwards to me lackadaisically without reading

But can he sale? Yes

Its tempting for me to proselytize that he isnt using feature branches or project tickets or even deploying with committed code

But I bite my tongue and tell him to focus on the MVP since he wants to prompt Claude Code for 48 hour sessions without there being any indication of how other devs could contribute

Because he has clients that wants what he described, and because he has no capital I get a huge cut of that

I’m fine with that, I’ll clean up the project very quickly

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#97
post #37

HN probably has as much as 5 million monthly users. This is not just a small group of insiders, but more of a broadly representative sample of startup and engineering people. So there is a wide range of judgement, and more importantly, a diverse set of worldviews. These are beliefs that form the foundations of cognition and perception. In the general population there are a massive number of people who do not understa…

Is 5 million a guess or a stat? I've always wondered how "big" HN is.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#98
post #75

I tend to agree with your overall point, but I think you reveal far more about yourself than you accurately reflect anything about HN. Just read back what you wrote: > AI-assisted version could have been deployed 10x faster. By then, enough real-world feedback would have surfaced to identify the major issues You want to ship major bugs to your users, let them find them, report them and fix them afterwards. You passiv…

If everyone does it and the majority of users are captured in ways that they wont or cant seek out alternatives then shipping bugs to users, letting them find amd report them and then fixing them is business-optimal.

What keeps users themselves from vibe-coding their own software?

If you don't own quality, why should I pay? You're just a middleman at that point.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#99
It's a gut feeling.

We _know_ LLMs can't be _that_ good as they are promoted.

I've spent the last 6 months creating a production grade app from scratch with Claude where I wrote no single line of code. I've reviewed code and it was looking good, almost completely following my templates, workflows, skills.

Now I've started to make minor manual updates and I'm horrified. Claude has no idea why there were those templates and instructions in place. It followed them blindly without grasping their spirit. The end result is like a very junior dev copy-pasting answers from Stack Overflow into the codebase. No consistency, chaotic application of different conventions, duplicated code, ghost code (does nothing), and perhaps more as I'm digging in.

The pros: The code works, all tests pass (43% code / 57% tests, 1:1.3 ratio), the UI looks good with visible glitches

The cons: I'll have to rewrite most of the code on the long run, make it fit, easy to maintain.

The verdict: I wouldn't started this project alone. Claude get me through to v0.1.0 / MVP where I've focused solely on the product: technologies, architecture, functionality, and usability. Now it's easier to refactor all for v0.2.0 manually without Claude.

So this might be our gut feeling: we know it's something good, but not as good as the stakeholders might promote. We know it helps in some ways but it's a nightmare in other ways.

We are not anti-AI but rather pragmatic: Not that AI enthusiasts we are expected to be.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#100
> Users don’t care whether the code was written by AI or by hand, or which framework you used.

But users also include users of the code. There's no value in self-flagellation via terrible code or pointlessly complicated frameworks.

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