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Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

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Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#91
post #36

One downside of Framework is they use DDR instead of LPDDR. This means you can upgrade or replace the RAM, but it also means memory is much slower and more power hungry. Its also probably worth putting the laptop in "efficiency" mode (15W sustained, 25W boost per Framework). The difference in performance should be fairly negligible compared to balanced mode for most tasks and it will use less energy.

Isn't Ryzen AI (Strix Point?) using similar non-upgradeable LPDDR?

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#92
A lot of insightful comments already, but there are two other tricks I think Apple is using: (1) the laptops can get really hot before the fans turn on audibly and (2) the fans are engineered to be super quiet. So even if they run on low RPM, you won't hear them. This makes the M-series seem even more efficient than they are.

Also, especially the MacBook Pros have really large batteries, on average larger than the competition. This increases the battery runtime.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#95
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework is a bit behind the others in terms of cooling, apparently due to compromises needed to achieve modularity. However, a well-tuned Ryzen U in the latest ThinkPads is not that far from M chips in terms of computing power per Watt according to some benchmarks. Most Linux distributions are not well tuned, because this is too device-specific. Spending a few minutes writing custom udev rules, with the aid of powe…

+1 on powertop, i have use it successfully for tunning old macs that I have upcycled with Linux and difference is day & night.

powertop helps a lot, I went from 3-4 hours to 6-7 hours on a ThinkPad. That said, it's not something you would want to bother a regular user with. E.g. enabling powertop optimizations will enable USB autosuspend, this will add a delay every darn time you didn't touch your USB keyboard or mouse for a second. So, you end up writing udev rules that excludes certain HID devices (or using different settings for when a laptop is on power or not), etc.

These are the kinds of optimizations that macOS does out of the box and you cannot expect most Linux users to do (which is one of the reasons battery life is so bad on Linux out-of-the-box).

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#96
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When limited to 5 watts, the Ryzen HX 370 works pretty darn well. In some low-power user cases, my GPD Pocket 4 is more power efficient than my M3 MBA.

We are going to need to see some numbers for your claim. That’s not believable.

A 8.8" screen takes a lot less power.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#97
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument never passes the sniff test. You can run Linux on a MacBook Pro and get similar power efficiency. Or run third party apps on macOS and similarly get good efficiency.

You can run Linux on a MacBook Pro and get similar power efficiency. What? No. Asahi is spectacular for what it accomplished, but battery life is still far worse than macOS. I am not saying that it is only software. It's everything from hardware to a gazillion optimizations in macOS.

It’s worse at switching power states, but at a given power state it is within the ball park of macOS power use.

The things where it lags are anything that use hardware acceleration or proper lowering to the lower power states.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#98
One is more built from the ground up more recently than the other.

Looking beyond Apple/Intel, AMD recently came out with a cpu that shares memory between the GPU and CPU like the M processors.

The Framework is a great laptop - I'd love to drop a mac motherboard into something like that.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#99
Like a few other comments have mentioned, AMD's Strix Halo / AI Max 380 and above is the chip family that is closest to what Apple has done with the M series. It has integrated memory and decent GPU. A few iterations of this should be comparable to the M series (and should make local LLMs very feasible, if that is your jam.)

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#100
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get like 3 hours on my MBP when I use it. MacBooks have better runtime only when they are mostly idle, not when you fully load them.

Can confirm, when developing software (a big project at $JOB) getting 3h out of a M3 MBP is a good day. IDE, build, test and crowdstrike are all quite power hungry.

> crowdstrike

It is incredible that crowdstrike is still operating as a business.

It is also hard to understand why companies continue to deploy shoddy, malware-like "security" software that decreases reliability while increasing the attack surface.

Basically you need another laptop just to run the "security" software.

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