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Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#91

Post by julianpye »

le-mark wrote: post #28

Is the backlash worse than the Bush invasion of Iraq in 2003? Is it worse than the first Trump administration? Genuinely curious. The reality is the 50% of voters who DID not vote for the current president are just as shell shocked as the Europeans. Only we KNEW it was coming.

It's totally different. There was negative public sentiment, but the diplomatic relations still were stable and good. Germany wanted to be convinced, but could not be. Tony Blair went with Bush.

This time it is diplomats that are raising the flags. It actually has not yet arrived in the public sphere as drastically as it has in the policy side.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#92

Post by cyberlurker »

unosama wrote: post #58
seydor wrote: post #6

Good headlines for sure, but i wonder: Suppose the war ends. Will the Europeans keep boycotting the cheap russian gas? Tarriffs are a nuisance to the US - the US doesn't export much.

The US imports way too much and our economy has been slowly dying since the 70s. Tarriffs are only a nuisance for the upperclass, they're a boon for middle class Americans because they allow more industry to come back to the United States.

Over what timeline will industry come back? And are $5,000 or $10,000 in 2025 dollars washer and dryers acceptable to Americans?

It’s possible all economists are wrong. It is more likely they aren’t. Tariffs are going to hurt middle and lower classes.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#93

Post by croemer »

lompad wrote: post #16
alanfranz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will this really happen? Or will the US prevent Europe from doing that by saying “then defend from Russia all by yourself?”

That's already expected. Right now, preparations are made for nuclear (re-)armament of europe. Germany in particular is working towards that at this moment [EDIT: politically. not in the "actively preparing weapons"-phase.]. Also, france has a first-strike policy. So even without US troops, europe will be fine. A sizable part of the population has wanted the US out of especially germany for a looong time now, so thos…

> Right now, preparations are made for nuclear (re-)armament of europe. Germany in particular is working towards that at this moment.

Can you provide a source for this? It would be big if true, in particular the Germany claim. I've not heard it and couldn't find things with a quick google search.

Germany is currently already doing nuclear weapons sharing with the US, i.e. they have access to US nuclear weapons though of course with some restrictions.

What you wrote sounds like Germany would be working towards having new nuclear weapons to be produced in Europe without US involvement and shared without US restrictions.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#94

Post by ben_w »

alanfranz wrote: post #5
rvnx wrote: post #2

Tesla FSD wont be authorized in Europe, this will be one direct consequence of all of that. In addition, tariffs will be put on cars coming from the US. Plus, US is now recognized as a very unreliable partner in terms of defense, that Europe regrets buying their systems.

Will this really happen? Or will the US prevent Europe from doing that by saying “then defend from Russia all by yourself?”

> Will this really happen? Or will the US prevent Europe from doing that by saying “then defend from Russia all by yourself?”

If push came to shove, the only ally Ukraine needs to equal Russia (as it is today) is Poland.

They'd rather not have to as it would be expensive, but Poland could match 100% of current outside assistance for Ukraine[0] for a smaller fraction of their GDP than Ukraine itself is currently spending on the war[1].

The USA and Russia agreeing with each other to carve up Ukraine would be a much harder battle.

Well, it would be harder unless DOGE actually does make good on the claim of $2T cuts, because the only way of reaching $2T without touching the "mandatory" budget (mandatory = social security etc.) is to delete the entire armed forces and the CIA (and basically everything else) and just under half the interest payments on the loans, which in turn means they'd have no power to carve anything up.

[0] $380bn over the first 2 years according to Wikipedia, so lets say $190bn/year

[1] Ukraine plans to spend ~$53.7 billion in 2025, about 26% GDP

Poland's GDP is $915, 26% of that would be $237.9 billion / year.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#95

Post by gloomyday »

clvx wrote: post #20
seydor wrote: post #6

Good headlines for sure, but i wonder: Suppose the war ends. Will the Europeans keep boycotting the cheap russian gas? Tarriffs are a nuisance to the US - the US doesn't export much.

Aerospace is a big deal. Airbus relies on P&W and Collins Aerospace (both part of Raytheon).

The global supply chain is enormously complex. US companies depend on European companies as well, which makes the whole thing much more stupid.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#96

Post by kjrfghslkdjfl »

vvpan wrote: post #19

If Europe somewhat deregulated startup stage businesses an countries issued more visas to engineers it could probably turn a lot of things around. So far European founders have been moving to US. But these days I imagine I'm not the only one who doesn't want to work in the shadow of US technofeudalist oligarchy and receive money from people like Marc Andreessen.

Could you point out specific examples of what is too regulated? I never understood this complaint. True, I also never bothered digging into it because I started out with the belief that it's just a talking point. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#97

Post by antirez »

whynotminot wrote: post #18

Switching search engines to what? AI-powered search also created by American companies? America's image is toxic to everyone right now (including its own citizens). But I don't really see that many valid alternatives. It's not like Europe has done much to cultivate any kind of relevant software industry.

LLMs are something everybody can reproduce with enough money, as shown by Musk itself recently: in one year they have Grok3 which is a SOTA model, without having particular talents or innovations, just following the recipe everybody else is using (and this is why you see new companies competing with established companies: all are training transformers with a lot of tokens, basically). So Europe can have their LLMs as well: the important thing is to relax this stupid AI act, that the biggest countries in Europe didn't want (Germany, France, Italy) but that somewhat passed (and it is not impossible that there are external influences and corruptions). About the search engine: Google at this point is almost a joke, to the point it is simpler to redo it right than trying to fix it from the internal. Remember that a lot of key technologies are created by europeans: from Python to Linux, to MySQL and so on. Europe has all the potential needed if the right choices are made to do everything needed.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#98

Post by otherme123 »

seydor wrote: post #6

Good headlines for sure, but i wonder: Suppose the war ends. Will the Europeans keep boycotting the cheap russian gas? Tarriffs are a nuisance to the US - the US doesn't export much.

Exports are not consumer goods only. Imagine a car is assembled in Mexico, but seats and wheels are made in the US: the pieces count as exports. If you see a table with export/import data for the US, you are going to notice a lot of Mexico and Canada, because that kind of capital goods move a lot between the three countries, well before the consumer good is finally created.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#99

Post by jimmar »

> the US completely destroyed its soft power this week

Soft power sounds like manipulation to me. So if we destroyed our manipulation, great. The United States has put its fingers on too many scales rather than respecting the rights of individuals in other countries to manage their affairs the way they see fit.

I welcome tech competition from Europe. Let the best products and services win.

Re: Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe?

#100

Post by kjrfghslkdjfl »

le-mark wrote: post #28

Is the backlash worse than the Bush invasion of Iraq in 2003? Is it worse than the first Trump administration? Genuinely curious. The reality is the 50% of voters who DID not vote for the current president are just as shell shocked as the Europeans. Only we KNEW it was coming.

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