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Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

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Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it case sensitive? At least I always assumed it was.

For short codes in the USA, it technically does not have to be. And in fact businesses have to regularly check for requests even like "please don't send me messages" to be compliant.

> And in fact businesses have to regularly check for requests even like "please don't send me messages" to be compliant.

That's only vaguely true. The FCC has effectively said "here's a list of words that are considered reasonable opt out words and let the courts decide what is reasonable when there is a dispute." [0] They're basically deferring to the courts to determine reasonableness.

Obviously it's a good practice to remove people who are intentionally obtuse, but the courts really don't like people who don't follow the instructions, especially because sending "please don't send me messages" is more inconvenient than sending "STOP":

> The court held that “[t]he totality of the plausibly alleged facts, even when viewed in Plaintiff’s favor, militate against finding that Plaintiff’s revocation method was reasonable.” It also rejected the notion that there is something improper about prompting called parties to text “STOP,” explaining that “heeding Defendant’s opt-out instruction would not have plausibly been more burdensome on Plaintiff than sending verbose requests to terminate the messages.”

[1]

That said, it's reasonable to expect that replying "stop" regardless of case should stop those messages from coming through.

[0]: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-24-24A1.pdf

[1]: https://tcpablog.com/2017/revocation-consent-must-reasonable...

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text messages don't have an "open" action. Replying STOP will unsubscribe the recipient from future SMS from this number. I have never seen an organization use an unsubscribe as a positive action in their funnel. There are less expensive and less risky ways to confirm that a phone number is valid for sure.

Not really true, if you have an iPhone, at least. URL previews are loaded on message open. A network request to the url they sent you. They know when you opened it Unless the behavior has changed (maybe it has)?

Previews are generated by the sender. The only network requests for the receiver are to Apple. Quoting from a January 2021 Project Zero blog post⁽¹⁾ on BlastDoor:

As an example, consider what happens when a user sends a link to a website over iMessage. In that case, the sending device will first render a preview of the webpage and collect some metadata about it (such as the title and page description), then pack those fields into an NSKeyedArchiver archive. This archive is then encrypted with a temporary key and uploaded to the iCloud servers. Finally, the link as well as the decryption key are sent to the receiver as part of the iMessage. In order to create a useful user notification about the incoming iMessage, this data has to be processed by the receiver on a 0-click code path. As that again involves a fair amount of complexity, it is also done inside BlastDoor: after receiving the BlastDoor reply from above and realizing that the message contains an attachment, imagent first instructs IMTransferAgent to download and decrypt the iCloud attachment.

⁽¹⁾ https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/01/a-look-at-ime...

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#93
post #3

It kinda depends on which platform handles their bulk messages. For example, if they are messaging you through Twilio, replying with "STOP" will cause Twilio itself to opt you out of messages ( https://help.twilio.com/articles/223134027-Twilio-support-fo... ), and the sender can't disable that ( https://help.twilio.com/articles/360034798533-Getting-Starte... ). It's kinda like how Mailchimp handles unsubscriptions fo…

Speaking mostly for the US here. The STOP keyword is mandated as unsubscribe at the carrier level (Verizon, ATT, TMo) not just the vendor level. So if you reply STOP, it's very likely that you will not receive another message from that number. This will be true for any programmatic SMS vendor. There could be smaller scale & more manual approaches, but that would be rare. There has been a big effort in the last year+…

"What I want to know is, what's the purpose of those random texts that just say something like, "How's it been?" from a number that I've never communicated with? What's the angle there? Anyone know?"

Some people are seriously lonely - eager to pick up any chance of real interaction. And those scams prey on that.

On telegram those spam usually comes together with a profile picture of a pretty women. With text only, it targets the imagination.

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#94
post #3

It kinda depends on which platform handles their bulk messages. For example, if they are messaging you through Twilio, replying with "STOP" will cause Twilio itself to opt you out of messages ( https://help.twilio.com/articles/223134027-Twilio-support-fo... ), and the sender can't disable that ( https://help.twilio.com/articles/360034798533-Getting-Starte... ). It's kinda like how Mailchimp handles unsubscriptions fo…

Speaking mostly for the US here. The STOP keyword is mandated as unsubscribe at the carrier level (Verizon, ATT, TMo) not just the vendor level. So if you reply STOP, it's very likely that you will not receive another message from that number. This will be true for any programmatic SMS vendor. There could be smaller scale & more manual approaches, but that would be rare. There has been a big effort in the last year+…

> There has been a big effort in the last year+ to clean up the space and require consent before any SMS is sent.

Unless it is political

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#96

In my experience it doesn't do much. For example, I made the mistake of contributing to the campaign of a politician. Now I get texts from candidates all over the country. If I reply STOP to one, I just get sent more texts from another number, for another candidate in another state. I just got tired of replying with STOP after the 20th time. This just guarantees I'm never giving any money to any candidate ever again.

In a previous election cycle, I made the mistake of donating a few thousand dollars to several candidates. Since then, I get spammed through the year, and close to a major election, it's dozens of emails and phone calls and text messages every week. Thankfully, Gmail catches 99% of the spam emails and my Pixel phone filters out spam texts and calls. It has a built-in Google Assistant mode that screens unknown callers…

>Google's spam blocking is phenomenal on the Pixel, but they barely even advertise it.

It's a feature that's good enough to warrant me replacing the otherwise superior Xiaomi dialer/SMS apps on my phone with the Google ones. I don't get the screen calling, but all the other parts work 80% of the time.

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#97

A Golden Rule of the internet says that you should never reply to unwanted texts on any medium: - stalkers and trolls live off reactions, both positive and negative ones - spammers will use your reply to verify there's a human at the other side - colleagues and friends will hate you because everybody thinks they're important Replying only has negative effects. Use client-side filtering, kill files, blocking functions…

Except that STOP is handled at the carrier level and isn't even returned to the sender. It's effectively a mandated block command.

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#98
post #88

It's like email. If you press unsubscribe you just confirm the email is valid. If you send STOP back you just confirm there's a human reading the messages at that number. Besides, this seems to be an US only thing so it will only work for law abiding US based spammers^H^H^Hdirect marketers. Not for spammers outside the US, US based spammers that don't care about the law or scam/phishing messages.

If the message is sent through mailchimp, pressing unsubscribe actually unsubscribes you and blocks the sender from contacting you again.

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#99

Carriers in the US will block further texts from the number. The problem is it’s easy to get more numbers to spam from. This unfortunately makes it super hard for legit businesses to send transactional texts. (And Google is leading the charge in marketing ‘new features’ as a ‘transactional’ emails and push notifications) The undeniable way to stop spam texts is to litigate. You’re put onto special lists at “number re…

Doesn't work for political texts, which aren't violations.

Re: Ask HN: Should you reply STOP to unwanted texts?

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true, if you have an iPhone, at least. URL previews are loaded on message open. A network request to the url they sent you. They know when you opened it Unless the behavior has changed (maybe it has)?

Previews are generated by the sender. The only network requests for the receiver are to Apple. Quoting from a January 2021 Project Zero blog post⁽¹⁾ on BlastDoor: As an example, consider what happens when a user sends a link to a website over iMessage. In that case, the sending device will first render a preview of the webpage and collect some metadata about it (such as the title and page description), then pack thos…

Keyword: over iMessage. What about normal SMS messages?
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