Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 103 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#91

Post by 7thaccount »

gumby wrote: post #44
7thaccount wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big revival of lisp?

Many ideas that come from lisp, and for which lisp was long ridiculed, are now mainstream, like garbage collection, closures, a big runtime, a huge library (nowadays lisp is criticised for its small library), typed data (instead of typed storage), exploratory development in an interpreter coupled with an optional compiler... I don't consider languages with these features lisps, but I think the GP's statement is only…

That's not a revival of lisp itself, just it's ideas becoming pulled into more mainstream languages. I wouldn't call Python having a REPL to be a lisp revival, but you can disagree.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#93

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

retrocryptid wrote: post #46

Meh. Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers. Which is to say the languages were designed for different language design methodologies. In the old days of Lisp we didn't have large libraries of pre-existing functionality, so it was important for programmers to know how to construct complex functions from simple functions. But now we have python with its expansive partially documented standard and semi-standard…

>> I've yet to see a LLM spit out even half-way decent Lisp (CL, scheme or even e-lisp). My suspicion is the corpus of available code is small and its language features tend to generate less "boilerplate."

Well, Lisp is noted for its terse and succinct notation [1], so it makes sense that, LOC-for-LOC there is less of it around than Python.

________________

[1] I am told. I wouldn't know. I'm a Prolog programmer.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#94

Post by nextos »

sn9 wrote: post #67
karakot wrote: post #5

Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming is also a great book.

For those interested in working through all three, the order to do so would be HTDP -> SICP -> CTMCP.

HtDP is a great book, but probably too elementary for the average HN reader looking to begin with SICP.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#95

Post by sn9 »

nextos wrote: post #94
sn9 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested in working through all three, the order to do so would be HTDP -> SICP -> CTMCP.

HtDP is a great book, but probably too elementary for the average HN reader looking to begin with SICP.

The OP mentioned SICP more because it's famous, but the core of their desire is to improve as a self-taught programmer, and I've heard from even experienced developers that the design recipe and systematic techniques taught in HTDP have benefited them, and they're more directly related to the problems OP described as wanting to solve.

Worst case, they find it too elementary and wasted a few weeks or months.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#96

Post by [deleted] »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #93
retrocryptid wrote: post #46

Meh. Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers. Which is to say the languages were designed for different language design methodologies. In the old days of Lisp we didn't have large libraries of pre-existing functionality, so it was important for programmers to know how to construct complex functions from simple functions. But now we have python with its expansive partially documented standard and semi-standard…

>> I've yet to see a LLM spit out even half-way decent Lisp (CL, scheme or even e-lisp). My suspicion is the corpus of available code is small and its language features tend to generate less "boilerplate." Well, Lisp is noted for its terse and succinct notation [1], so it makes sense that, LOC-for-LOC there is less of it around than Python. ________________ [1] I am told. I wouldn't know. I'm a Prolog programmer.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#97

Post by philomath_mn »

Going to stick my neck out here: I read a lot of technical books, have a masters in math and 10+ years professional experience but man that book was too much of a slog for me (only made it a few chapters).

It sure _seems_ like a no-brainer to read such a classic, but I wonder how many copies languish on the shelf without ever getting finished (same goes for The Art of Computer Programming).

Don't let this discourage you from giving it a shot, but also don't be discouraged if you aren't able to finish it. Just keep reading and challenging yourself as best you can -- a few years of that and you'll be miles ahead of 99% of devs out there.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#98

Post by emptysongglass »

nextos wrote: post #94
sn9 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested in working through all three, the order to do so would be HTDP -> SICP -> CTMCP.

HtDP is a great book, but probably too elementary for the average HN reader looking to begin with SICP.

The design approach to programming it teaches you will serve you for the rest of your career.

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#99

Post by retrocryptid »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #72
retrocryptid wrote: post #46

Meh. Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers. Which is to say the languages were designed for different language design methodologies. In the old days of Lisp we didn't have large libraries of pre-existing functionality, so it was important for programmers to know how to construct complex functions from simple functions. But now we have python with its expansive partially documented standard and semi-standard…

“Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers.” Then what does that make Hy language? https://hylang.org/ Re Languages with lots of example code and LLM’s With translators or things like Hy lang, one could get the LLM’s to solve your problem in Python before converting it to another form. Then, you just need a translator. If lacking one, it’s easy to translate by hand. The practicality of this concept will probabl…

Is there any evidence of anyone using Hylang (other than the community that invented it?)

Re: Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?

#100

Post by nickpsecurity »

retrocryptid wrote: post #99
nickpsecurity wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers.” Then what does that make Hy language? https://hylang.org/ Re Languages with lots of example code and LLM’s With translators or things like Hy lang, one could get the LLM’s to solve your problem in Python before converting it to another form. Then, you just need a translator. If lacking one, it’s easy to translate by hand. The practicality of this concept will probabl…

Is there any evidence of anyone using Hylang (other than the community that invented it?)

Probably not. I mentioned it because it’s existing work that bridges the two. It also might spark HN users’ creativity about how they might do it differently.

For instance, I was exploring two ideas. One was how to turn Python into something with no dependencies, more powerful, and fast. I considered converting it to Lisp to use their compilers and macros. Another exploration was, like ShedSkin, converting it to C/C++ but without Python dependencies. It would be easier for me to generate code from Lisp syntax than Python syntax.

So, you know, just sharing tools that might get people’s minds going.

Post reply on HN