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Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#91

Post by ghaff »

warrenm wrote: post #89
ghaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even just smaller companies if you know someone high enough up :-) Every job I've had since right out of grad school has basically come through sending someone I knew an email. That's really the answer although it's probably not very actionable for a lot of more junior people.

"who" vs "what" you know has always been the "right answer" :)

I know you'll find people who say they've always just gone through recruiters or applying online, but beyond starting out it certainly hasn't been my experience--including in difficult periods like 2001. I'm sure I've been lucky but it's also resulted in the right jobs through the right people.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#92

Post by pkrotich »

It's just like dating - have you tried it lately? Dating Apps has made the issue even worse - so "better" hiring platform is not a viable solution either.

The quickest hires IMHO are via referrals - but this is sort like arranged marriages/dates and it comes with it's own set of issues (nepotism etc).

I think companies need to have dedicated HR / Recruiters (or hire headhunters) to cut down on such frustrations. But the problem is tech hires, unlike construction / temp hires require high touch interviews with department heads etc. Add flood of resumes (now that WFH is a thing) and it's so difficult to speed up the process since it's costly to hire the wrong candidate.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#93

Post by pkrotich »

p1esk wrote: post #19
roland35 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One unfortunate side effect of referral bonuses is that they don't really help increase diversity since employees are most likely to refer friends from their existing social circles. I didn't realize that at first!

I personally would prefer to work with people from my social circle.

I used to believe in "culture fit" as well but it took me going to a tech conference to realize it was a codeword / gateway for alot of **isms.

And I don't even mean racism - say your potential candidate is older with kids (assuming you're younger) would you pass them because they cannot go out drinking with you after work (a.k.a social circle)?

That said, I agree that you want to work with people you get along with, but it has to be at work. Social circle is the issue for me.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#94

Post by quickthrower2 »

p1esk wrote: post #19
roland35 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One unfortunate side effect of referral bonuses is that they don't really help increase diversity since employees are most likely to refer friends from their existing social circles. I didn't realize that at first!

I personally would prefer to work with people from my social circle.

I prefer to work with the best people for the job.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#95

Post by cloudedcordial »

systemvoltage wrote: post #14

Hard take which is pretty much unpalatable to HN crowd: If I had a small dev shop, I would put out an hiring ad that says you must drop off your resume in person and we will only hire people from 50 mile radius. Like they used to do in 1970's. Not a fan of: 1) Global pool of candidates 2) Leet code bullshit 3) Remote work Fan of 1) Permanent hiree after 3 months of time with us. 2) You will be part of our family, we'…

> 2) You will be part of our family

Treating business like a part of the family is a bad idea. You will end up with nepotism in the organization and shun out new ideas. Yet some real businesses embrace this mantra and bad things have been happening.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#96

Post by noirbot »

ghaff wrote: post #86
noirbot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious though - if I'm a skilled person who wants to find "a place worth working for" how would I do that? Especially in a remote work world? Most of the places I've worked over the years are smaller and more niche companies and teams that I wouldn't have known to look for if I didn't already know someone working there. If you're a small company who has tapped out their current team's referral network, how do yo…

>If you're a small company who has tapped out their current team's referral network, how do you get out the word that you're a good place to work, and how would people find out that you're a good place to work? One thing I might do is have a blog which had genuinely interesting content that's both related to what the company does and working there.

Perhaps, but I don't make a habit of reading blogs about jobs I don't currently have from smaller companies. Not that I have anything against them, but you still have a discoverability problem.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#97

Post by roxgib »

logicalmonster wrote: post #90

> Employers are overwhelmed with large numbers of applicants, most of whom don't meet the requested minimum requirements. 1) I wonder if the problem of being overwhelmed by applicants can be solved in the same way that dating sites work, because they somewhat have a similar issue. Perhaps restrict job seekers from applying to more than X jobs per day or week, like some dating sites do. At the least, this ensures that…

Your second point is important, but when you have recruiters/HR as the front line of hiring it completely breaks down because they haven't got a clue whether an applicant's skills are transferable or not. And they cop a lot of flack for this from developers but honestly I'm not sure it's possible for someone who doesn't even code for a living to learn how different technologies are and aren't compatible, skills-wise. Same reason we end up with unhelpful job descriptions. I think most developers would already be onboard with your second point but it's simply not up to them.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#98

Post by roxgib »

Oras wrote: post #6

I’m working on a platform to filter out applications by: 1. Geo restriction (when required). 2. Skills required in the job (listed by employer). Any resume that don’t meet a percentage of required skills will be notified immediately after uploading the resume. 3. Filtering questions. That could be anything from skills, required certifications, ability to start in certain times. It is an attempt though, I don’t know i…

Ideally it would be smart about the skills, and recognise how skills transfer between technology. I feel like this is a solvable problem with the right technology.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#99

Post by roxgib »

georgeecollins wrote: post #50

This isn't a fix exactly, but for a long time now the only jobs I ever take are either with people who know me or people who know someone who recommended me. Like a lot of people here I had to randomly apply to all kind of jobs and got rejected for practically everything when I started. So my suggestion would be: think about people you know or could meet and ask them if they like where they work? Are they hiring? The…

This makes sense for companies as they tend to want to avoid bad hires more than they want to hire the 'best' person. As another person pointed out though it really sucks for people who happen not to have contacts, and often makes it harder for minorities.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#100

Post by deterministic »

I recently interviewed a number of developers for a Typescript front-end job. We received 360+ CV’s but most of them could be rejected in seconds (no developer experience at all) narrowing it down to about 20. We interviewed about half in priority order, and hired 2 really good developers.

All we did in the interview was to discuss things they have worked on before, going deep into all the details. Talking about why they decided to implement it the way it was implemented, what the trade offs were, what they would do differently today, the hardest problems they had to solve, how they would have implemented it given different biz constraints etc.

No white-boarding, silly puzzle questions, online coding games, or other BS nonsense. Just deep questions about things they claim they have worked on in the past. It works really well. It is easy to identify experienced smart developers by how clear their thinking is and how well they articulate their decisions, problem solving etc.

It’s simple. It works. Highly recommended.

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