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Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

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Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#91
post #90
post #80

Please read two books, in this order. After reading these, you will know: 1. Mindfulness in Plain English by Bhante Gunaratna [0] 2. The Mind Illuminated by Yates et al. [1] And plese steer away from awful sources. People, the modern day "influencers" are piggybacking on Meditation to sell their own stuff. And it is related to a lot of stupid concepts that higher practitioners of Eastern Spirituality themselves rejec…

> talked about benefits of it Very terrible choice of words before this quotation, but the gist is clear and "correct". You should probably explore other traditions: you will probably be surprised to find substantially that pattern expressed in different, productive ways.

I have no complaints with the technique described in Satipatthana Sutta.

Which other tradition do you suggest and why?

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#93
post #14

It's about training your mind's executive control/function. You learn to focus on one thing and allow others to pass through your awareness without them being overly distracting/disturbing. Think of your focus like a spotlight. Most people have very little control over their spotlight and it gets aimed at whatever is the latest thing to enter their awareness: a thought, a sound, another thought, a visual, etc. It's b…

interesting take . the spotlight meshes well with achieving "bliss", which many describe as an blinding light - in effect the spotlight being pointed to your face!

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#94
post #71

>Honestly It still looks like a big scam to me. LOL. From your wording and questioning, my guess is that you have been reading too much Meditation from a Western cultural perspective. And I would not be surprised if most of them are indeed, Scams. My suggestion would be to travel to Japan and find the answer for yourself.

(I am a permanent resident in Japan)

Honestly, its a scam in Japan as well. It is really really hard to find something that really works given most people have swung towards being apolotical & agnostic. Shintoism is carried forward as a legacy not because people actively believe in it. Zanzen or "zen" Buddhist retreats charge a ton of money and make you go through a mindless routine. And its a make-believe that you learnt meditation.

Being a functioning Buddhist, the only thing I can say it takes months to years of everyday mental training to bring that discipline. I tried with some degree of success but it needs more time for legendary results that people talk of.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#95
> isn’t our whole life a sequence of meditations? Because we always focus on something

Focus is only the method (one of many), not the goal. In (eg) vipassana meditation, the goal is "to see things as they really are."

> meditation is “doing nothing”. Okay, but then again there’s nothing special about it, we all do it from time to time.

Meditation is not "doing nothing," it's actually a very active process. If anything it's more like the practice of intentionally thinking nothing. This is not as easy as it sounds.

One of the early meditation exercises is to sit quietly and count to ten slowly (perhaps one count for each breath, and each breath taking a ~5 second inhale, ~7 second exhale). When you notice your mind drift to something else, refocus on the counting and start over at zero. The goal is not really to reach ten (if you do, start over at zero). The purpose of the exercise is to realize how noisy our internal thoughts and feelings are, to practice observing them, letting them go, and refocusing on your focal point (counting or breath, etc).

There's nothing special about running, we might find ourselves doing it from time to time. But then why do people jog? Meditation is similar. It's an exercise.

And to further emphasize doing vs thinking: meditation has very little to do with what we're physically doing. You can meditate while walking, driving, or doing any activity. (It's just harder to do because there are more distractions.)

> just sit peacefully and observe your thoughts. Then again, aren’t we doing it anyway on a regular basis without introducing a word for it?

We are not, typically, observing our own thoughts. We're thinking thoughts, and feeling our feelings, but not actively observing them. But meditation is not just observing thoughts, but also letting them go without attaching to them. Letting every seed of a thought float away without taking root.

> Can you please share your own personal specific definition — what exactly is a meditation for you?

Meditation (to me) is the practice of letting go of thoughts. By doing this enough times, we strengthen the process so it becomes automatic. The goal is so we can observe our own thoughts and feelings, and everything around us, from a more calm and clear point of view. "To see things as they really are." It also has other benefits.

To be concrete: after waking up I set a timer (anywhere from 1-40 minutes depending on what I need) and sit quietly with my eyes closed (or sometimes open). I focus on my breath and all the sensations around me: the sound of the fan, the tension and release of muscles, etc. When a thought pops up, I let it pass by without judgment or attachment and return my focus to my breath. When the timer goes off, I'll continue meditating for a few minutes if my mind is really restless.

After meditating I'm typically in a calm, collected state, ready to start my day. Throughout the day, when I remember, I'll return to that state of awareness (of everything inside and around me) and meditate for a few moments during whatever I'm doing. After meditating regularly for a few months, I find this process will happen throughout the day without forethought (just automatically out of nowhere). When something happens that triggers an emotional reaction in me, I'll see the emotion as though it's a button I could choose to press or not.

I know you don't like analogies, but meditation is like you're following a toddler walking down a path. The toddler wanders every which way, following whatever whims. Each time it leaves the path, you gently and without judgement pick it up and return it to the path. It doesn't matter how many times you do this, the toddler will always leave the path. The goal is not to teach the toddler to stay on the path. The goal is not to keep the toddler on the path. The goal is to strengthen your arms so you can return the toddler without effort. This is the practice of meditation.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#96
Before thinking, things are as they are. After thinking, things are as I make them to be. Before thinking, something can be experienced. After thinking, it’s all a story.

That's what meditation will eventually unearth for you. Through meditation you'll experience and begin to gain an understanding of how your mind works and how that flavors the way you go through life on a moment to moment basis.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#97
The meaning of the words has become frustratingly loose in the West, but there's no point breaking my face on that wall.

You have to separate the pragmatic aspects of mindfulness meditation, which are more commonly stressed in the West, and the "less pragmatic" aspects (call that "spiritual" or "transformational" if you like) which are part of the actual practices/systems from which it originates. I'm focusing on the first as that seems to be your interest.

The core pragmatic purpose of mindfulness meditation is to notice when your mind has become distracted. Returning your attention to your breath (or whatever) after your thoughts have drifted is the practice. That's it, but if you think "that's all?" then you haven't practiced this and have no idea juuuuuuuuuuust how distracted you are.

As with "doing nothing", if you think that's easy or something "we do all the time", then you haven't really experienced or understood it. You're dealing with an intellectual preconception rather than the lived experience of recognizing your turbulence.

It can go beyond that, into disidentification from thoughts and sensations, experiencing "awareness", and so forth, but that isn't the pragmatic aspect, which comes first.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#98
> aren’t we doing it anyway on a regular basis without introducing a word for it?

I think this is the heart of the matter. Meditation is not something you need to "do" in addition to the living of your life. It's just an awareness of what your mind is actually like in the present moment, as your life unfolds.

The "practice" of meditation is just a way of conditioning your environment in a way that makes the processes of your mind more obvious.

Many people spend most of their waking moments identified with and fascinated by an ongoing internal narrative that aggressively converts sense experience into language. The stream of lived experience is instinctively and unconsciously divided into separate things and events, and usually those things are immediately classified as either pleasant (to be grasped at) or unpleasant (to be rejected).

There's nothing inherently wrong with this process, but because it tends to happen "under the surface" of conscious attention, we can easily forget that we're doing it.

The brief cessation of this process is what I believe people mean by "doing nothing" - you're not actively "doing" nothing, which as you note is logically impossible. But you are ceasing to do something that has been happening so constantly for so long that it has become part of "the background" and faded away from conscious awareness. The thing that you are ceasing to do is the constant identification of "yourself" as the stream of thoughts and classifications that occupy your mind.

If you are able to experience that without the practice of meditation, or if you have no interest in experiencing that state of mind, then of course there's no need to meditate. Or you could easily say that whatever you happen to be doing while this state of awareness is happening _is_ the practice of meditation - there's nothing special about sitting with crossed legs or chanting or whatever.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#99
My experience is that it's about practicing the ability to control my attention. I think of it like exercise for my attention. When I've been doing it, even if my mind gets pulled in many directions I can choose how much time and energy to focus on each thing. When I haven't been doing it, I'm more susceptible to having my attention controlled by fears or anxieties more than hopes and goals.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#100
Asking a lot of strangers a loaded question like this you're bound to get some iffy answers.

Let's consult with some famous faces in the community. I've provided some short excerpts so that you can skim each link and get a flavor of what the essays are like.

Thanissaro Bhikku, on mindfulness defined: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/mindf...

> Mindfulness is what keeps the perspective of appropriate attention in mind. [Goes on to discuss what different definitions of mindfulness, and where some get it wrong]

Hsuan Hua, on what meditation is: http://www.cttbusa.org/chan/chan1.asp.html#whatischan

> Chan means stilling thoughts. We will only realize Chan if we still our thoughts. Samadhi means not moving. If we move, we have no samadhi. [Goes on to discuss samadhi and posture]

Ajahn Sucitto, on different definitions of mindfulness: https://ajahnsucitto.org/articles/what-is-mindfulness/

> [Mindfulness] has a referential quality; it connects present-moment experience to a frame of reference. The teachings on the four establishments, or bases, of mindfulness exemplify this.

Ajahn Sumedho, on what mindfulness is: https://buddhismnow.com/2019/03/16/mindfulness-is-an-interes...

> It does not mean just to have an idea that one has to be mindful of each step while walking on an almsround, as a kind of fixed view of mindfulness. Because that can be merely concentration. Mindfulness allows us to really notice the way it is, where we are, the time and the place.

Ajahn Chah, on what meditation is: https://www.ajahnchah.org/book/On_Meditation1.php

> When the mind is peaceful and established firmly in mindfulness and self-awareness, there will be no doubt concerning the various phenomena which we encounter. The mind will truly be beyond the hindrances. We will clearly know everything which arises in the mind as it is. We do not doubt because the mind is clear and bright. The mind which reaches samādhi is like this.

Culadasa, on what mindfulness is: https://culadasa.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Magic-of-Min...

> But what is mindfulness? “Mindfulness” is an unfortunate translation of the Pali word sati – unfortunate in that it suggests attentiveness or remembering to pay attention. This fails to capture the full meaning and importance of sati. We are always paying attention to something, even without sati, but sati means, among other things, paying attention to the right things in a skillful way. A more appropriate but clumsy phrase might be “powerfully conscious awareness” or “fully conscious awareness”.

Bhante Vimalaramsi, on the four foundations of mindfulness: https://www.lionsroar.com/living-with-awareness-an-excerpt-f...

> The practice of contemplating (or as we might say, meditating on) the Four Foundations—mindfulness of the body, feelings, mind, and dhammas (or phenomena)—is recommended for people at every stage of the spiritual path.

Ayya Khema, on the meditative mind: https://www.vipassana.org/meditation/khema/hereandnow/medita...

> Another facet which goes together with mindfulness, is clear comprehension. Mindfulness is knowing only, without any discriminating faculty. Mindfulness does not evaluate of judge but pays full attention.

Sekkei Harada, on peace of mind: https://buddhismnow.com/2013/12/21/true-peace-of-mind-by-har...

> The expression ‘casting off body and mind’ means that by being one with a certain con­dition or circumstance, you assimilate all other things. It is said that for three years Dogen Zenji didn’t lie down to sleep and that he couldn’t recognise the faces of the monks who sat next to him. These words ‘casting off body and mind’ express the result of his ‘just sitting’. The other half of the above expression, ‘body and mind cast off’, refers to a condition where having forgotten the ego-self, everything disappears. This is all the splendid result of his having sat zazen single-mindedly.

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