Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 151 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#91

Post by sillysaurusx »

smoldesu wrote: post #71
sillysaurusx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But.. this isn’t true on two counts: Cartels smuggle huge amounts of money all the time, and the bitcoin hack involving a YC founder ended with the coins recovered. They were unable to tumble the coins without losing them.

Cartels smuggle cash. Cash is fairly untraceable, so it makes sense. If anything, it reinforces the idea that removing accountability from money encourages bad behavior. > the bitcoin hack involving a YC founder ended with the coins recovered Sometimes you get a happy ending. There's plenty of stories about the Wild West that don't end with two dead cowboys. On the other hand though, our banking system can almost uni…

Cartels smuggle hundreds of millions of dollars through the actual banking system. It's scary how connected they are. I was very surprised.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#92

Post by Barrera »

PaulHoule wrote: post #5
Barrera wrote: post #2

It's hard to see Bitcoin's value proposition when you live a life of financial privilege. Bitcoin's value proposition is this: censorship-resistant money. If you don't care about being censored, you won't see the value proposition. If civil asset forfeiture seems like no big deal, then Bitcoin will seem dumb. If routing literally every payment you make through a surveillance apparatus seems fine then Bitcoin makes no…

With most forms of crypto the government can look at the ledger. Frequently the US has success at tracking down and seizing Bitcoin and other forms of crypto. Since the ledger is public you can replace your elected and somewhat accountable 'government' with * North Korea, Iran, ... * Scientology or Jeffery Epstein's lawyers (if you are a victim looking for justice) * the Mafia, Yakuza, Triad, ... * Greenpeace, ACT UP…

Everyone can look at the ledger. This is of course the whole point. But it means nothing by itself. Privacy is eroded by linking ledger pseudonyms with other identities. It's especially bad when a record of that link is made in a database. This is something that users do for various reasons, but it's not required.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#93

Post by Barrera »

dotnet00 wrote: post #39
Barrera wrote: post #2

It's hard to see Bitcoin's value proposition when you live a life of financial privilege. Bitcoin's value proposition is this: censorship-resistant money. If you don't care about being censored, you won't see the value proposition. If civil asset forfeiture seems like no big deal, then Bitcoin will seem dumb. If routing literally every payment you make through a surveillance apparatus seems fine then Bitcoin makes no…

>routing literally every payment you make through a surveillance apparatus This is pretty much exactly what BTC is too and in some senses is way worse, people only need to find a way to associate wallet addresses with identity and all your financials are open to them. There are of course options that truly do solve the censorship issue, like Monero.

True, privacy in Bitcoin takes diligence. But that association between pseudonyms and identities is not part of Bitcoin but rather some of the things that happen around Bitcoin. Understanding the risks is key. I'm not saying it's easy, just that it's possible to maintain far better privacy than with credit card payments.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#94

Post by Barrera »

Finnucane wrote: post #9
Barrera wrote: post #2

It's hard to see Bitcoin's value proposition when you live a life of financial privilege. Bitcoin's value proposition is this: censorship-resistant money. If you don't care about being censored, you won't see the value proposition. If civil asset forfeiture seems like no big deal, then Bitcoin will seem dumb. If routing literally every payment you make through a surveillance apparatus seems fine then Bitcoin makes no…

There isn't a lot of practical evidence that the rhetoric of bitcoin's value proposition is actually manifest.

What kind of evidence would convince you?

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#95

Post by mountainriver »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86
cbdumas wrote: post #12

Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It's not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

Eh no

HN hates on bitcoin because it’s incredibly wasteful and overhyped.

HN hates on blockchain because it’s a convoluted way of solving problems that could otherwise be done simply.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#96

Post by smoldesu »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #91
smoldesu wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cartels smuggle cash. Cash is fairly untraceable, so it makes sense. If anything, it reinforces the idea that removing accountability from money encourages bad behavior. > the bitcoin hack involving a YC founder ended with the coins recovered Sometimes you get a happy ending. There's plenty of stories about the Wild West that don't end with two dead cowboys. On the other hand though, our banking system can almost uni…

Cartels smuggle hundreds of millions of dollars through the actual banking system. It's scary how connected they are. I was very surprised.

Be that as it may, do we really want to enable everyone to have cartel-level money smuggling capabilities? Is that the sort of power we should strive to democratize?

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#97

Post by AnimalMuppet »

smoldesu wrote: post #96
sillysaurusx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cartels smuggle hundreds of millions of dollars through the actual banking system. It's scary how connected they are. I was very surprised.

Be that as it may, do we really want to enable everyone to have cartel-level money smuggling capabilities? Is that the sort of power we should strive to democratize?

Yes. Everybody, or nobody. Why should some have it and others not?

Note well: In this post, I am not taking a position as to whether "everybody" is the correct answer, or whether "nobody" is. I just want everyone to be at the same level.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#98

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

mountainriver wrote: post #95
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

Eh no HN hates on bitcoin because it’s incredibly wasteful and overhyped. HN hates on blockchain because it’s a convoluted way of solving problems that could otherwise be done simply.

> Eh no

>

> HN hates on bitcoin because it’s incredibly wasteful and overhyped.

>

> HN hates on blockchain because it’s a convoluted way of solving problems that could otherwise be done simply.

There is nothing in your comment that isn't accounted for in my original comment.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#99

Post by falcolas »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86
cbdumas wrote: post #12

Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It's not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

Technology does not solve social or economic problems. How we use that technology is how you solve social or economic problems.

How are we using Bitcoin? As a ponzi scheme where the earliest of investors win by bringing more people in.

How are we using Blockchains (specifically NFTs)? Outright fraud.

Ponzi schemes and fraud won't solve our social or economic woes. What few good things Bitcoin and the blockchain ever provided has been completely overwhelmed by the crap.

As a result, governments are going to crack down on these technologies hard. They've already started by taxing these virtual currencies the same way they do stocks.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#100

Post by bb88 »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86
cbdumas wrote: post #12

Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It's not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

> I would say rather that HN readers are blinded by their own technical abilities, so much so that they think they are right when it comes to social or economic ones.

I agree with you on that. Never mind the money laundering, the criminal extortion, the unfettered grift, the ponzi schemes, the lack of regulation, smart contracts which aren't, securities sold in exchanges that aren't secure, the gross misappropriation of other's work making profit in NFT's as genius level crypto godhood, and the never ending supply of pretzel logic to convince others that while 90% of it is all shit, the 10% that isn't justifies crypto's entire existence.

Is that because they're blinded by their own technical abilities? Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in?

I don't see you addressing this in your post, so I thought I'd ask.

Post reply on HN