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Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

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Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#91

Post by cb321 »

mamcx wrote: post #69

HN is about interesting stuff. Rust is VERY interesting: Novel memory management, low-level, great tooling, can ACTUALLY compete against C/C++ across the board, have a lot of modern stuff: ML heritage, functional idioms (but you can do imperative code, not worry!), const/immutability promoted, NOT NULL thank you very much!, UTF-8 string "oh amazing", a lot of edge cases accounted for... And, with interesting tools yo…

While Nim has of course evolved, it was first released publicly in 2008, and I believe began in private around 2003..2004. Nim is also safe [1] and competes fine with C/C++ across the board, IMO { as do many other PLs. }.

[1] https://uploads.peterme.net/nimsafe.html

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#92

Post by gostsamo »

taylodl wrote: post #86
gostsamo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it just isn't an issue for me You have those two findings from Google and Microsoft that roughly 2/3 of the vulnerabilities that they find in their code are memory related, so it is definitely something that someone finds important. Also, if you have large scale codebase that is serving millions of people, the assurance of less bugs is much better starting proposition than maybe it won't fail.

I wonder if part of the problem Google and Microsoft has is they have so many developers having so little real-world experience in a language such as C++? Back in the day we used to be very careful with who did C++ work because it makes it so easy for inexperienced developers to shoot themselves in the foot. But really though, for an established team not having these kinds of issues and not having a lot of new hires…

No idea. However, every sufficiently complex project will become harder to manage with the accumulation of changed requirements, refactorings, and unavailable contributors. For this reason only the automated analysis of code could benefit an organization by transfering part of the work outside of the human competency domain.

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#93

Post by Jensson »

gostsamo wrote: post #68
taylodl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hoping to hear something other than debugging memory corruption errors. I've worked in C++ for 15 years in 4 different organizations and across many different teams and memory corruption was never really an issue, certainly not enough of an issue to abandon C++ and adopt a whole new ecosystem. This is the primary reason I hear for adopting Rust and it just isn't an issue for me so I'm interested in learning what…

> and it just isn't an issue for me You have those two findings from Google and Microsoft that roughly 2/3 of the vulnerabilities that they find in their code are memory related, so it is definitely something that someone finds important. Also, if you have large scale codebase that is serving millions of people, the assurance of less bugs is much better starting proposition than maybe it won't fail.

If you aren't handling string data from external sources then memory bugs aren't a big deal, I think most low level developers today don't deal with a lot of external string data so to them Rust doesn't really offer much. But for the roles where almost all you do is pipe or parse around data packets then I see the strong appeal, but to me such applications aren't very interesting. So crypto libraries, browser engines and the networking part of servers.

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#94

Post by super_flanker »

My 2cents, I'm a software engineer and have been in industry for long time(~20 years). A new programming language doesn't excite me anymore as it used to do 5-10 years ago, then I encountered Rust and I really liked it. All my personal projects, small utilities are written in rust. I specifically look for Rust related HN posts. I think there are many people like me who appreciate rust as a programming language and they make such posts.

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#95

Post by pvtmert »

I'd say rust is the *only* true open-source modern compiled language that can replace C/C++

Go: Too much Google influence and GC/allocation being constrained by it's authors. Swift: Same for Apple, see above Nim/Zig/Crystal/Elixir: Too behind in terms of widespread support and development. (At least not as good as rust)

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#96

Post by PaulHoule »

fargle wrote: post #70
PaulHoule wrote: post #8

Well, many people don’t want to pay the factor of 2 performance cost of a managed language like Java and strcpy in C is Turing complete and most code has to portable to at least x86 and ARM (often both 32 and 64 bits) so assembly is out…

> strcpy in C is Turing complete How so? You've made this claim twice ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27910640 ), but I can find nothing else to back this up. We know about C++ templates "accidentally" being discovered to be Turing complete, but I've never heard of strcpy() being so... while((*p++=*q++)); ... I'm not seeing it. Honest question, can you shed light on how this can be?

Strcpy is a good setup for a buffer overflow despite having to run a gauntlet of countermeasures to really pull it off in 2022.

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#97

Post by mamcx »

cb321 wrote: post #91
mamcx wrote: post #69

HN is about interesting stuff. Rust is VERY interesting: Novel memory management, low-level, great tooling, can ACTUALLY compete against C/C++ across the board, have a lot of modern stuff: ML heritage, functional idioms (but you can do imperative code, not worry!), const/immutability promoted, NOT NULL thank you very much!, UTF-8 string "oh amazing", a lot of edge cases accounted for... And, with interesting tools yo…

While Nim has of course evolved, it was first released publicly in 2008, and I believe began in private around 2003..2004. Nim is also safe [1] and competes fine with C/C++ across the board, IMO { as do many other PLs. }. [1] https://uploads.peterme.net/nimsafe.html

I understand, and I don't say Rust was first, instead, that having high-profile new langs make people interested in new langs (like nim), because it draw attention to that...

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#98

Post by cb321 »

mamcx wrote: post #97
cb321 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Nim has of course evolved, it was first released publicly in 2008, and I believe began in private around 2003..2004. Nim is also safe [1] and competes fine with C/C++ across the board, IMO { as do many other PLs. }. [1] https://uploads.peterme.net/nimsafe.html

I understand, and I don't say Rust was first, instead, that having high-profile new langs make people interested in new langs (like nim), because it draw attention to that...

Fair enough. I thought your text was only vaguely suggestive of an alternate timeline, and was just clarifying (and almost said so). :-)

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#99

Post by AnimalMuppet »

rendall wrote: post #25

You're not wrong. HN Rust articles: 4 in the last 24 hours (not including this one) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... HN Go articles: 0 in the last 24 hours https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=1&prefix=true&que... JavaScript: 5 in the last 24 hours - a much more popular language but none of these got to the front page https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...…

Well, the Go 1.18 article dropped 3 hours after you wrote this, and has been on the front page ever since. 295 comments so far.

Re: Ask HN: What's the Deal with HN and Rust?

#100

Post by JonChesterfield »

bogeholm wrote: post #31
JonChesterfield wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't Amazon buying ownership of it recently? Seems a substantial disadvantage if that comes to pass

Amazon is a member of the Rust Foundation, they haven’t “bought” the language. Edit to add: https://foundation.rust-lang.org/members/

Hiring core devs and imposing control that way if I'm following the discussions successfully, e.g https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28513130.

Interested in reasons to believe Amazon are not going to determine the future of the language, I'm at least six months out of date.

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