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Ask HN: New Programming Language?

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Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#91

Post by Kuinox »

dragonwriter wrote: post #82
Kuinox wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I didn't knew about D (I did little to no research on other languages yet). I will read it, but mind that, I said "general purpose" I don't want this to be a language used to be only used as a Database. The whole app should be written in it.

> I will read it, but mind that, I said "general purpose" I don't want this to be a language used to be only used as a Database. A major point of D is to eliminate the object-relational impedance mismatch and the app language/SQL boundary by providing one language for app and database that is truly relational. That said, I think most of the implementations (other than as libraries for existing languages, which is kin…

Yeah, it still looks too much like SQL to me.

My idea is to make procedural looking code, but is relational all the way. I believe it's possible and would limit the issue a lot of people has with SQL/relational.

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#92

Post by bmn__ »

JohnDeHope wrote: post #12

I'd like a language that, as much as possible, insulated me from async worries. I'm thinking of how garbage collection helps me forget about memory allocations. I don't want to have to pepper my code with 'async' and 'await' hints everywhere. I'd prefer to not have to figure out the syntax incantation for marshaling data across threads. If I'm not mistaken Go is the closest to this?

Raku is closer.

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#93

Post by fjfaase »

raspasov wrote: post #13
fjfaase wrote: post #3

A programming language that is based on values including values where the components can have references to other components. Such a programming language should also have cursors that point to parts of a value and can be used to modify a part of the value that they belong to. Preferable there should also be transactions on values and values with a (undo/redo) history. Having a lot of experience with programming in C+…

Have you looked at Clojure?

I just did. I did not find anything on compound values where the components can have references to other components with in the compound value. Maybe I did not look good enough. I also would like to have integrity requirements on references such as FOREING KEY constraints with cascaded delete in Relational databases. I also would like to have transactions like those in databases.

I am surprised that there are still no software development platforms where you use one language for all levels and do not have to translate between different ways of representing data and interacting with services.

The interesting applications are where multiple agents (people and/or other systems) are working on the same data. The methods to define such forms of cooperation are rather primitive. On one hand you have the databases with their transactions and pessimistic locking approaches. On the other hand you have git repositories with optimistic locking and manual merging. Sometimes you would like to have something in the middle, where you can define which operations conflict (do not commute) and how to deal with them.

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#94

Post by lizmat »

JohnDeHope wrote: post #12

I'd like a language that, as much as possible, insulated me from async worries. I'm thinking of how garbage collection helps me forget about memory allocations. I don't want to have to pepper my code with 'async' and 'await' hints everywhere. I'd prefer to not have to figure out the syntax incantation for marshaling data across threads. If I'm not mistaken Go is the closest to this?

You might want to have a look at the Raku Programming Language (https://raku.org). It doesn't parallelize automatically, but only if you hint at it being ok, or if you are explicit (in this case using the `.hyper` method):

The millionth prime number using 1 CPU:

    $ raku -e 'say (1..Inf).grep(*.is-prime).skip(999999).head'
    15485863
    real 0m5.515s
Using whatever CPU cores are available (using `.hyper`):

    $ raku -e 'say (1..Inf).hyper(batch => 10000).grep(*.is-prime).skip(999999).head'
    15485863
    real 0m2.036s

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#95

Post by raspasov »

fjfaase wrote: post #93
raspasov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at Clojure?

I just did. I did not find anything on compound values where the components can have references to other components with in the compound value. Maybe I did not look good enough. I also would like to have integrity requirements on references such as FOREING KEY constraints with cascaded delete in Relational databases. I also would like to have transactions like those in databases. I am surprised that there are still n…

>> I am surprised that there are still no software development platforms where you use one language for all levels and do not have to translate between different ways of representing data and interacting with services.

You've spotted a problem that I think many people are blind to. I agree 100%.

If you'd like to explore more about Clojure, I highly recommend this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScEPu1cs4l0

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#96

Post by immnn »

This might be out of scope, but I dream of a general purpose programming language to develop web based applications.

I think overall web dev is kind of broken caused by the fact, that we still let web technologies evolve instead of reinventing them. To write a web based application you need several languages, which are furthermore separated in front- and backend.

NodeJs kind of tries to fill the gap, but it’s still just a technology which refers web languages.

I think of a different kind of technology that might not be based on html/css/js + backend-language.

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#97

Post by nivertech »

nivertech wrote: post #4

Programming Languages initially were called "Higher-Level Programming Languages" to contrast them with the "Low Level Machine Languages" / Assembly. Back then there was an understanding that you can increase productivity by using higher-level languages over low-level languages. The next leap was LISP Machines and Smalltalk Single Image Systems, where the developer was given a unified vertically-integrated environment…

4GL - Fourth Generation Languages

also CASE (Computer-Aided Software Engineering) tools

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#98

Post by raiph »

JohnDeHope wrote: post #12

I'd like a language that, as much as possible, insulated me from async worries. I'm thinking of how garbage collection helps me forget about memory allocations. I don't want to have to pepper my code with 'async' and 'await' hints everywhere. I'd prefer to not have to figure out the syntax incantation for marshaling data across threads. If I'm not mistaken Go is the closest to this?

Couple suggestions:

* Ponylang. Pure Actor model. Static typing to enforce safe concurrent semantics in almost all respects. Plus ORCA GC. Upshot: high performance, and type theory grounded guarantees of no deadlocks, no livelocks, and no data races. Chief downsides are that MS Research has hired its founder, and it's a fledgling language/community.

* Elixir. Kinda Actor modelish. Dynamic typing, solid community. Someone else has posted about it.

* Raku. Someone else has posted about it. Chief downsides are that it's got slow single core performance and small community. Upsides include ease of use for multi core code. `start` schedules a lambda or function or statement on a virtual thread. cf Go's `go`. No `async`.

Re: Ask HN: New Programming Language?

#99

Post by lizmat »

raiph wrote: post #98
JohnDeHope wrote: post #12

I'd like a language that, as much as possible, insulated me from async worries. I'm thinking of how garbage collection helps me forget about memory allocations. I don't want to have to pepper my code with 'async' and 'await' hints everywhere. I'd prefer to not have to figure out the syntax incantation for marshaling data across threads. If I'm not mistaken Go is the closest to this?

Couple suggestions: * Ponylang. Pure Actor model. Static typing to enforce safe concurrent semantics in almost all respects. Plus ORCA GC. Upshot: high performance, and type theory grounded guarantees of no deadlocks, no livelocks, and no data races. Chief downsides are that MS Research has hired its founder, and it's a fledgling language/community. * Elixir. Kinda Actor modelish. Dynamic typing, solid community. Som…

A small, but growing community, I'd say :-)
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