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Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#91
post #71

I don't think it's unusually bad. Rather, if an app offers open ended search, it will generally generate fairly poor results.

No, it really is exceptionally bad even among half-assed search implementations. For a start, it interprets multiple words in a query as an OR. You search for a "hello world", you get "hello nobody" and "goodbye world" and the search results. It also always applies stemming, which mangles technical terms. At Cloudflare we have a daemon called "cloudflared" and it's impossible to find it in the damn wiki. If it even t…

If possible please try this https://marketplace.atlassian.com/apps/1225034/better-instan... and let me know how it goes for you. No stemming applied, no term expansion etc... The back button issue exists (not sure if possible to fix that as a plugin), but id suggest opening results in a new tab to solve that issue.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#92

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

IMO bitbucket is okay. Its UX for PRs is amazing, 1000x better than Githubs. Especially its side by side diff. This concludes, and fully encompasses, everything good that I have to say about Atlassian products.

I have a few plugins to improve the PR's in bitbucket too, showing you the relative size of the PR compared to others you normally work with.

Includes the language breakdown and such. Makes it much easier to know if you should be blocking out 5 mins to 5 hours to review something and if you even should be depending on the language.

Alas, Atlassian does not offer PVA for Bitbucket (it was meant to be there in July) so I cannot release it since it costs me money to host. I really wish they would invest more time into Bitbucket.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#93
post #76

I'll take a stab at actually guessing why aside from the issue that people making purchasing decisions don't see how bad it is until work has already gone into bringing in docs and pushing people to use it. Aside from the organizational issues, I think there's a problem where basically no search system can be good for every org with any kind of internal info and different queries from perhaps several distinct types o…

Great take. I worked on Confluence for a few years and have a bit of insight.

Search has been an area of focus on and off for the most part of the last 15 years. It actually has gotten a lot better and Atlassian has an entire team focused on improving the search experience across their suite of products (they started with Confluence). And from what I hear, they are focusing on all the right things.

To your point, no search system can be a good fit for every possible use-case. Confluence has a number of different use-cases, but let's just pick "documentation" and "intranet" as an example here.

Intranets are, to a large degree, about keeping up with what's new in a company. Therefore recent content is likely more relevant than older content.

When used for documentation, recency doesn't matter at all. If a document was written 2 years ago, but the content is still accurate, it's just as relevant as it was on day one.

That means no single relevance configuration will work well for all use-cases. Leveraging ML is essential. But even a single ML model across an entire Confluence instance is not going to work as different spaces are used for different use-cases. What's really required here is to build different models for different spaces to create a tailored relevancy for each space. It's not an easy problem to solve, but I'm confident they will get there with time.

Seeing the challenges with Search at Atlassian, despite having a large, dedicated team of engineers working on the problem, is what motivated me to join http://sajari.com. We've been doing a lot of work on reinforcement learning and Neural Search. Our focus right now is on public content websites and e-commerce, but eventually we will get around to enable products like Confluence to create a great search experience without the need for an entire team. Search is a hard problem, but there is so much opportunity to improve the experiences that are available today. Exciting times.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#94
post #7

Yes it only finds you crap results. Not sure why they have the most naive search algorithm out there. Maybe good search needs more AI and CPU power than we think. Maybe this is something google should take on. A search plugin for Confluence where google crawlers logs in from time to time for internal crawling to enable non-public teach request on that data. That boost knowledge workers efficiency a lot. I hope somebo…

This is a thing that exists already for Google Cloud Search https://workspace.google.com/products/cloud-search/ https://marketplace.atlassian.com/apps/1212945/google-cloud-...

Wohoo nice. So now management needs to hear the cries and buy it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#95

I'm my experience almost everything that Atlassian makes is total garbage. Bitbucket, Jira, Confluence, etc. are all horribly slow to the point of being unusable and most of it has very poor UI/UX. I pretty much don't recommend anything they make. It's not surprising at all that a fundamental feature of a wiki, search , doesn't work very well.

IMO bitbucket is okay. Its UX for PRs is amazing, 1000x better than Githubs. Especially its side by side diff. This concludes, and fully encompasses, everything good that I have to say about Atlassian products.

bitbucket PR is horrible compared to reviewboard

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#96
post #37

Searching corporate wiki is pretty difficult, because contrary to something like Google, you can't use context of a search query to recommend content. * First you have a few occurrence of the same search query in your search history (because only a few people searched similar words in the past) * You can't either use synonyms of remove stop words to recommend better content (IT, can means "information technology, or…

Do you really think you will be able to get close to Google results?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We started with a self-hosted mediawiki server and this did not go well. Expecting someone not very computer savvy (and there are lots of those in my company) to dive into the markup on a page and not make a mess of it was a bad idea. At that time at least the WSIWYG editor was not very usable. Don't know if that is still the case. So off we went to Atlassian. It has many flaws, but nobody is pining for the old days…

You can literally go see for yourself how the WYSIWYG editor works these days. I suspect it's come a long way since the last time you checked it. My bigger question though is why the average user is important. Most large companies have employees whose entire job is ... knowledge management. If they can't figure out how to write wikitext then maybe they're not a good fit for the role?

> My bigger question though is why the average user is important. Most large companies have employees whose entire job is ... knowledge management. If they can't figure out how to write wikitext then maybe they're not a good fit for the role?

If your wiki limits its contributors to experts, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#98
As others have said Atlassian don't care about you, the user. Their products are piles of features that perform well in feature comparisons, with the minimum amount of effort to UX.

"Atlassian Tools" is on my list of automatic rejections for companies I'm thinking of working at for this reason.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can literally go see for yourself how the WYSIWYG editor works these days. I suspect it's come a long way since the last time you checked it. My bigger question though is why the average user is important. Most large companies have employees whose entire job is ... knowledge management. If they can't figure out how to write wikitext then maybe they're not a good fit for the role?

> My bigger question though is why the average user is important. Most large companies have employees whose entire job is ... knowledge management. If they can't figure out how to write wikitext then maybe they're not a good fit for the role? If your wiki limits its contributors to experts, you're doing it wrong.

Regardless of limitations, the vast majority of edits tend to be by those whose job it is.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Confluence Wiki Search so bad?

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen self-hosted Jira installs that took 20+ sec to load a page. Today I use one that they host and there is nothing wrong with it.

I tried their hosted version for a bit on their 30-day trial or whatever. Virtually every page load took upwards of 5 seconds.

Also, having 5 jira issues opened in separate tabs simply kills the browser. It’s awful.
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