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Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

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Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#91

Post by restingrobot »

kkielhofner wrote: post #77
thatguy0900 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the risk here? That they would purposefully send you to a malicious lawyer? That seems kind of unlikely. Especially if the patent troll has also sued them

The risk, as I see it, is multi-fold: - There's definitely no privilege with a competitor. The only people you should provide ANY detail or discussion on any of this are your attorneys. Full stop. That includes this post and discussion. - You signal to your competitors the very weak and vulnerable position you're in. Many will be happy to dance on your grave... - Business can be absolutely ruthless. I wouldn't put it…

I think you're drastically overestimating the competitive nature of business. I don't know your personal experience, but this sounds like a naive perspective. The number one thing a business cares about is the bottom line. None of these options specifically help the bottom line, especially considering that OP is a one person shop. There is simply no way they are big enough to matter to a large company, (why would they worry about this if they had large pockets), and other small companies wouldn't take the risk of themselves getting sued. The advice was to see if the same troller targeted someone else, and I absolutely would help my competitor take down a patent troll.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#92

Post by ajb »

jblake wrote: post #36
kkielhofner wrote: post #28

Usual disclaimer: I am not an attorney. Have they actually served you with any notice, potential licensing terms, legal documents of any kind? For clarification, are they a NPE (non-practicing entity)? Anyway, I've worked on pretty much every side of the patent system in the United States (assuming you're there). While I (fortunately) haven't been presented with your exact scenario I suggest: - You need to hire a pat…

Thank you. I have not personally been served, I found out about it via emails from two different patent attorney firms offering their services, with the lawsuit attached as a courtesy. The lawsuit looks legit to me. I live in Tahoe so don't get mail but will check today and also check with my registered agent in Reno. Can you recommend me a patent attorney? Any idea on how much this could cost?

That sounds strange. If you have really been sued you may be able to find out on PACER (https://pacer.uscourts.gov/)

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#93

Post by vnchr »

sonthonax wrote: post #84

Would it be possible to create a corporate structure around a patent to disincentivize trolling? Like if you set up a limited liability company that owns the code that's allegedly infringing on the patent, that then licenses out the offending code to you. But you structure the actual company as something you're buying a infringing service for a nominal fee under an SLA. If that shell company has no assets, and you pu…

There's still the potential for extorting a settlement based on the business value of the patent to the operating company. But it does seem like that would mitigate risks to other assets, like you said.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#95

Post by triceratops »

relaunched wrote: post #9

Talk to a lawyer. But, here's some things to know - 1) Willful infringement is worse than infringing. 2) Patent trolls are trying to earn money - some money is better than no money. 3) In most legal scenarios, you want to get out of the conflict as cheaply as possible - vindication is very expensive.

> In most legal scenarios, you want to get out of the conflict as cheaply as possible - vindication is very expensive.

Sorry but no. Patent trolls are no better than ransomware gangs. If you pay them once, they'll be back for another helping tomorrow.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#96

Post by lovecg »

orzig wrote: post #24

Bad idea for the sake of discussion: Why not represent yourself, make the whole process as public as possible (marketing to offset the cost of time), and do everything you can to asymmetrically use their lawyer's time? Even if you end up settling, they might come to the table a little more eager to get it over with

Going public works if a) you own the newspaper or b) your story can pull some serious societal heart strings. Unfortunately the public at large is largely ignorant to the mess that the software patents are, it’s hard to see this getting traction.

Also representing yourself is not quite like in the movies. There’s typically no sympathetic judge willing to bend the rules, etc. etc. The bureaucratic machine is quite efficient at following the letter of the law, so you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage by being a non-professional.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#97

Post by kkielhofner »

eloff wrote: post #78
kkielhofner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally appreciate the altruism of this advice but there's a huge risk in that the competitors likely won't set aside the spirit of competition, whatever they've spent/done to deal with this, etc to help out a competitor. I, personally, would not risk this approach.

Honestly if a competitor came to me for help with a patent troll who'd previously targeted me, I'd bend over backwards to assist. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As I've noted in other comments many people see business as war. There are good examples in business but the history of war has even better examples. Time and time again "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can work until one enemy is vanquished.

In WW2 Stalin initially made a pact with Hitler while all the while knowing Hitler would violate it and invade anyway. Stalin just used it to buy time to ramp up the Soviet military. From what I recall it's likely Hitler assumed this as well and used the pact to delay dealing with the Soviets militarily and focus on his Western front to snatch up as much of Europe as possible.

Obviously a very dramatic example but as it applies here there's a very good chance that even if a competitor seems helpful, etc at first they could very well leverage the entire scenario to their advantage eventually (somehow).

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#98

Post by [deleted] »

scruffyherder wrote: post #41
jblake wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked with a lawyer before. How do I pick one? Should I pick one in my state - Nevada? Should I post the case details here? I guess I was hoping someone on HN had a connection or is an IP lawyer themself, as I have no idea how to pick a lawyer and no idea how much this could cost.

First challenge on any and all lawsuits is diversity. Since you are the one being sued it better be Nevada, otherwise your lawyer will answer with a diversity challenge saying you don’t do business where it was filed and ask for the case to be moved. Get ready for so many continuances and discovery requests. Do not delete anything, purposeful deletions can be taken as an admission of guilt. But I’m clearly not your l…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#99

Post by lovecg »

Tpsoc wrote: post #45
berdon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this thought. Everyone hates patent trolls and it's very possible some of these companies might relish another opportunity to force this one to "lose".

Or depending on the industry, your competitors might be happy to see one less competitor.

They’re a one person company, and I assume their competitors are not exactly Google and Facebook either. Surely there’s enough market share at that level to allow for some compassion and basic human decency? Not everyone has to be ruthless 100% of the time

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#100

Post by jblake »

Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

Wow, thanks Andrew! I sent you an email with the lawsuit. I look forward to hearing from you. What an amazing community!!
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