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Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

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91–100 of 176 posts

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#91
post #39

A new programming language which hides the fact that your code is running across multiple machines from you. Similar to OOP, you'll define some level of structure and the compiler will figure out how to best distribute it across the resources given to it.

Hiding the network has been tried before, but I don't believe it's ever worked well. (See the CORBA and "distributed objects" craze in the 90's.) The costs of networking are too high.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#92
post #20

Something much, much, simpler. I'm not convinced that /for most companies/ k8s adds enough value when compared to all the added complexity (not to mention the yaml soup!).

Working for a small startup that uses both k8s and more traditional infrastructure, I've found the yaml soup that comprises a reliable k8s system is not much worse than the yaml/hcl soup of our ansible/terraform provisioning scripts.

I don't like running all my stuff with yaml. We have to introduce templating and then things get messy. There needs to be a simpler, declarative way to share values, variables, etc between k8s types.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#94
post #20

Something much, much, simpler. I'm not convinced that /for most companies/ k8s adds enough value when compared to all the added complexity (not to mention the yaml soup!).

Working for a small startup that uses both k8s and more traditional infrastructure, I've found the yaml soup that comprises a reliable k8s system is not much worse than the yaml/hcl soup of our ansible/terraform provisioning scripts.

The best thing is that unlike ansible's horrible text-templated yaml soup (though kudos to them for making text templating indentation-aware unlike Helm), the fact that with k8s YAML is optional and I can use things like Jsonnet, CUE, any random programming language to build manifests with full reasoning about objects, makes it much nicer than most.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#95
I feel like it’s a bit like asking what’s next after linux. hard to say because the solution is good enough it’s going to last. There almost has to be a fundamental revolution in computing to overthrow linux at this point.

That will come, but it’s a ways out and difficult to see. Most of what we’ll see are different abstractions that will utilize linux under the hood. Same with kubernetes. It’s not that a new kind of OpenStack is going to usurp it, it’s that what comes next will be built on top of it as it becomes mroe and more the norm… until the next major computing revolution. (completely decentralized storage on phones a la pied piper? quantum computing?)

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#96

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

The Herokus of the future will run on top of kubernetes.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#97

I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far from its optimum with serverless and microservices. The main issue I have with both is the huge complexity and friction between how it runs on a developer machine vs how it runs in production. For me the sweet spot is monolith(-ish) 12-factor applications packaged up in containers. In this setup I can just `docker-compose up` my dependencies (postgres, redis, rabbitmq, oth…

> For me the sweet spot is monolith(-ish) 12-factor applications packaged up in containers.

exactly this.

Once you go with this you take technology out of a microservices definition and all that remains is how you scope your service.....

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#98
post #24

Kubernetes automates and standardizes some of the best practices around building reliable systems in a platform agnostic way. We never got there with VMs: Amazon ec2 instances are not the same as GCE instances are not the same as VMware VMs but a kubernetes api is the same everywhere (and providers are incentivized to standardize their offerings). Whatever comes next would have to be something that can standardize ev…

> We never got there with VMs: Amazon ec2 instances are not the same as GCE instances are not the same as VMware VMs This is true but is that such a huge deal? We successfully moved from AWS to GCP and it wasn't a massive deal; just different terminology for the same concepts.

It really depends on the kind of engineering org that you operate. As a general rule, more standards and easier migration paths win.

Compare that to redeploying your k8s manifests from an EKS cluster to a GKE cluster or vice versa. Its definitely not fully platform agnostic, but it requires much less engineering effort.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#99

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

The biggest problems with microservices are the lack of injecting cross-cutting concerns like security, monitoring, circuit breakers, resource metering, alerting, service dependencies, logs, resource isolation, upgrading on-the-fly, migrations, backups/restores of data, and configuration. These all have to be handled.

Docker with k8s is awful when it comes to resource metering. Docker is terrible with security and resource isolation. K8s, in general, is awful IMO because of the way it was architected and implemented.

Xen-ified "containers" (regular VMs but managed) with an ability to inject uniform, templated, configured concerns is how to do services: micro or macro; ephemeral app, infrastructure, or backend. Also, backups and logs have to live somewhere else.

Basically, a APPaaS/PaaS/IaaS in the spirit of K8s + OpenStack but much cleaner, workable, easier, simpler, fewer choices, more usable, more reliable, less stupid, and more standardized. (Discovery is insecure and fundamentally unworkable; top-down provisioning knows exactly what exists and is alive so use that as the authoritative single-source-of-truth.)

There is no other way I can see.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#100
post #96

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

The Herokus of the future will run on top of kubernetes.

Can confirm, building a Heroku of the future on top of Kubernetes.
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