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Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

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Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#91

Post by Nursie »

dominotw wrote: post #85
Nursie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relatively few engineers actually want to do contract work. The better contractors I've worked with all do, here in the UK. The day rates are high. The taxes are the same or lower, health insurance is optional. There's some company insurances you need and you have to get an accountant, but all-in that should be covered by less than a week of work each year. Gaps between contracts are desirable! Having a whole summe…

> Plus jumping on to a new project every few months keeps the work interesting But contractors are usually hired for their existing skilsets where they can jump in and start contributing immediately. So you end up doing similar projects. eg: If you are a backend programmer, no one will hire you to work on as a machine learning engineer on day rates. This is a big myth that contractors are working on something new and…

All I have to say to that is "You'd be surprised", particularly when you get a reputation for picking up new things quickly.

> Companies invest in training

Literally never happened for me in 12 years of perm work, for large and small companies. Discounting trivial/patronising things like security training. I've self trained or picked things up as I go along a few times as a contractor, just as I did when perm.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#92

Post by throwaway01931 »

detaro wrote: post #77
_0o6v wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here. There is a character limit on the title.

Ah yeah, don't do this either :P (EDIT: parent has edited their comment)

Indeed, that's another red flag.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#93

Post by yosito »

_0o6v wrote: post #74
yosito wrote: post #39

Start by not calling them Snr Engs. That makes it sound like you don't value them and view them as a comodity that you can't be arsed to write out completely. Not to mention, it won't come up in a search when active, motivated candidates are looking for new opportunities. This is not just a nitpick. If someone emailed me looking for a "Snr Eng", the email is getting deleted and flagged as spam.

OP here. There is a character limit on the title.

Fair enough. Though "Ask HN: How to attract Sr. Engineers when the contract market is so lucrative?" fits.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#94

Post by ericbarrett »

jameshart wrote: post #76
ericbarrett wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my personal experience across multiple jobs: For every company that tries to embody the old Agile Manifesto there are a dozen who've simply plugged The Latest Trendy Management Practice into that module slot and are continuing business as usual. No, thanks.

Right, and for every company who advertises ‘competitive compensation’ and means it there are a dozen whose idea of competitive comp is that they’ll match an offer to retain you later. You do need to filter through some BSers to find a good job but that doesn’t mean any company that claims anything good about themselves is lying.

Unfortunately it’s become a high-confidence signal that shenanigans will be ongoing.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#95

Post by JoeAltmaier »

softwaredoug wrote: post #58

I switched from consulting to a company. In short contracting is a headache if what you care about is doing good tech work. Rates in the contract world represent a lot of overhead and headaches you experience there: 1. Payment risk: chances someone doesn’t pay you is surprisingly high. A lot of time is just spent chasing down your money. 2. Poor payment terms: being able to bill after 30 days of work is actually seen…

I put 'payment due on receipt of invoice' right on the invoice. That's worked for me even at large companies with policies of net-30, net-60 or even net-90. I submit; the payment shows up in a week or so.

Another way: give a 2% discount for payment within 30 days. Haven't met an accountant that passes up a discount.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#96

Post by jameshart »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #88
Cederfjard wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agile is a time stuck and time waster How do you prefer to organize larger software development efforts that have to be coordinated with other business processes?

Anything that treats software development as an iterative research and development process, lets engineers self-organize, respects their time, and respects that time estimate certainty is asymptotic with respect to the time horizon.

I’m sure I read something similar in some sort of manifesto...

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#97

Post by bavell »

dominotw wrote: post #80
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #17

Relatively few engineers actually want to do contract work. The day rates look high, but they have to pay self-employment taxes and health insurance, as well as charge more to cover inevitable gaps between contracts. It seems unlikely that the existence of contract work is preventing senior engineers from joining your company. To be blunt, it’s more likely that you’re simply not paying enough to be competitive or you…

yes exactly. I did contracting when i was single and young. Contracting requires you to tolerate random loss of income, paying health insurance yourself ( in usa), traveling, unpredictable work schedules. Its impossible to afford health insurance for the family, traveling ect when you have kids.

This is currently me. There's no shortage of work and the pay is good but I think I'll need to shift gears to start a family. I don't travel much so that helps but you're spot on about healthcare and the unpredictable nature of this work.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#99

Post by durnygbur »

There is no silver bullet answer. I've been hired and I know how does it feel when company wants to hire, and when they're into teasing and time wasting game. FAANG might get away with recruitment false negatives but even their overconfidence has been overheating with personal clashes in recent years. In between there is a lot of space, and a lot of people looking.

Re: Ask HN: How to attract perm Snr Engs when the contract market is so lucrative?

#100

Post by raverbashing »

jameshart wrote: post #71
Nursie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relatively few engineers actually want to do contract work. The better contractors I've worked with all do, here in the UK. The day rates are high. The taxes are the same or lower, health insurance is optional. There's some company insurances you need and you have to get an accountant, but all-in that should be covered by less than a week of work each year. Gaps between contracts are desirable! Having a whole summe…

I mean, it’s not surprising that people who are doing well in the contract market like the contract market. For my part, I literally left the UK in part because the industry there was so geared towards contract work or boutique contract houses as the only viable career path for senior developers. It’s just not for everyone. I like staying with a product team and building and owning stuff; I like companies that build…

Curious, where are you located right now and did the market there cater to your expectations of less contract work?
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