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Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#91

Post by pjc50 »

yolo42 wrote: post #51
rots wrote: post #41

They want the codebase or the project name,github and websites? If they just want the codebase it's a simple OSS fork, why would they need your permission?

They could surely fork it and take it from there. They would rather want that they own the code-base so that their enterprise customers can be assured that it is a product that they control and own. My product, unintentionally, solves a lot of problems for the enterprise product that my company sells.

Ah, this is the landmine you've trod on; you can't make a side project that fixes some other product of your company without really annoying the people making the other product.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#92

Post by charlesdm »

yolo42 wrote: post #8
mcv wrote: post #6

Whether or not your employer can claim ownership in court depends entirely on your contract. But no matter what's in your contact, that route is probably not your best option. From what I understand, you created, in your own time, a project that is valuable to your employer, and that they want to use and develop. You're the expert on this project. Not just that, you designed every aspect of it, popularised it, and yo…

Thank you for your comments! This would have been natural but the timing of this could not be worse. I just got a raise (last week) and I doubt they will consider anything more. They gave me a raise because I was doing good work for other things. I've serious doubts that there would be any financial barter possible. I'll probably the lead for the project and my managers are fine with that. Promotion is something that…

An alternative is to sell them IP. Whether they're interested in that is another thing, but if your employment contract doesn't contain relevant clauses that automatically transfer IP ownership to your employer, it also doesn't seem like a bad solution to the problem.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#93

Post by charlesdm »

faitswulff wrote: post #42
ronilan wrote: post #40

Every once in a while something like this comes up in HN and the top voted answer is always “find a lawyer”. My 2 cents - don’t. You want compensation, you want to direct the roadmap. Your employer wants ownership. Where is the conflict? Why make one? (P.S. - my legal experience “peaked” about a decade ago when I hired Andrew Valentine, managing partner of DLA Piper Palo Alto to help bridge what should have been an e…

Lawyers don't necessarily mean conflict, just very specific agreements.

^ Totally agreed. Key is to see them as a partner, not someone just handling the legal side. You actually want a lawyer who keeps the end goal in mind, and doesn't just want to protect their client at all cost.

On some of the key terms in a contract: explain me the situation, give me the options and the associated risks, and then let me make the call on what I (as the client) find acceptable. I've never seen something blow up when operating in this way.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#94

Post by vanekjar »

> The company does OSS and my side-project is also Open-Source.

What does it even mean to "keep the ownership" in this case. You have never had an ownership when it's open-source. Probably they can take you're code, fork it and use without your approval, depends on the license used.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#95

Post by onion2k »

koala_man wrote: post #30

>developed it on my own time but the product directly relates to what my employer does As much as I hate to say it, that doesn't sound like a side project. That just sounds like overtime.

Couple that with the point that;

In hindsight, I also made some mistakes in how I went about evangelizing it.

It sounds like the author implied the company actually had something to do with whatever it is. That definitely makes it an unsanctioned overtime project rather than something separate like a side project.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#96

Post by Haga »

yolo42 wrote: post #49
relaunched wrote: post #23

Find a lawyer, ASAP, that specializes in employment and / or IP. This is a legal issue and you need to solve it with people that know the law. Talking, signing, admitting things, etc, only hurt you. Depending on your country and state, as well as your employment agreement, there are a lot of impactful variables. Intuition and personal relationships are not going to help you solve this issue, especially, absent knowin…

Thank you for the comment! I totally get what you and other threads are trying to say and I don't disagree with what you are saying. I probably should have cleared this out in my original post (my bad) that I do not wish to pursue the legal route. I personally feel that in my case, it will just drain everyone's energy for not much gain at the end. Also, personal relationships matter to me as well. I'm trying to find…

Yes, but you will make a bad bargain for relationships that have already sailed, because they nailed you as a IP Thief in the meetings your friends held to get your source.

You can't have peace unilateral.

If relationships where good they would have suggested a fair buyout.. Or allowed you to build said product on company time.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#98

Post by JamesBarney »

charlesdm wrote: post #86

Agreed, this is a legal issue. Consult a lawyer. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING! If they insist, let them know you are consulting with a lawyer. If they pressure you to sign documents then consider that they don't have your best interests at heart. Depending on the company their position could either end up being very friendly, or very unfriendly towards you. Also remember that, if you feel this is a project with great potenti…

I would not tell them you are consulting a lawyer. This can make the relationship with your employers very antagonistic very quickly.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#99

Post by speedplane »

> I've developed it on my own time but the product directly relates to what my employer does so I've sort of cornered myself in a bad place. In hindsight, I also made some mistakes in how I went about evangelizing it.

Your employer probably owns the code, but as its primary creator, you still have leverage.

If your employer used standard employment agreements when you signed up with them, the product almost certainly belongs to your employer. This is especially the case if you used any employer-owned equipment to create it (laptops, networks, etc.).

However, your employer probably knows that if they are aggressive, you will become unmotivated and drop any work on it, making it valueless and probably causing you to hate your job and quit. If they really value the product and you, they'll find a way to make the product and your career successful.

You can ask them to give you a stake in its success, and officially bring it into the company. You can also ask them to give it back to you if they stop supporting it. If you consult with a lawyer, they can probably advise you on various frameworks on how to organize such a deal.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#100

Post by brabel »

yolo42 wrote: post #52
koala_man wrote: post #30

>developed it on my own time but the product directly relates to what my employer does As much as I hate to say it, that doesn't sound like a side project. That just sounds like overtime.

Indeed, this realization is hitting me slowly.

My number 1 rule when it comes to side projects is to never create something closely related to my employer's business.

As an employee, if you put a lot of your business and technical knowledge (that was acquired while on the job) on a large side project effort without your employer's consent, you're playing with fire, because you may be transferring business advantage from your employer to the outside world, including the competition. You put yourself in a position where you could even get sued if things go badly (specially if your project is a potential money maker)... See the case of the Nginx author, who just got himself into similar trouble...

In conclusion, I think your safest bet is to, as everyone is saying, talk to a lawyer... not to threaten the company, but to protect yourself and hopefully come to a friendly agreement at the end!

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