Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#91

Post by isoprophlex » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:44 AM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Don't you envy people that never overthink things? People that enjoy the sensory experience of slobbering on a glass of wine? Playing sports for the sake of it?

Try empathy. These are humans too. They have their reasons for living their 'distasteful' lives.

I think it's you who's only got one note on their tune, not everyone around you.

If, in traffic, everybody is honking at you, do you think all of them are bad drivers, or could it be you?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#92

Post by jamesrcole » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:44 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #88

jamesrcole wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I addressed this kind of thing in my original comment: it is often important to first clearly identify the problems before trying to come up with solutions, and you may have to go days or weeks without being able to develop possible solutions.

That doesn't matter though. The point of plussing is about how you word your criticism so people don't feel the need to be defensive or antagonistic. If there's a problem that can't be solved for a while there's world of difference between saying "Your code is wrong. This is a problem we can't solve for weeks." and "You've made a great start and this code is going to be really useful as a foundation to build on, but…

It sounds like you're agreeing with me that criticism is important. I never advocated for poorly communicating that criticism, even though that seems to be what you're implying.

To repeat the point of the comment you replied to, it can be much more effective to first work on identifying exactly what the problem is, and if you always expect you can immediately identify solutions it'll hamper your ability to address tough problems.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#93

Post by brankoB » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:48 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #88

jamesrcole wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I addressed this kind of thing in my original comment: it is often important to first clearly identify the problems before trying to come up with solutions, and you may have to go days or weeks without being able to develop possible solutions.

That doesn't matter though. The point of plussing is about how you word your criticism so people don't feel the need to be defensive or antagonistic. If there's a problem that can't be solved for a while there's world of difference between saying "Your code is wrong. This is a problem we can't solve for weeks." and "You've made a great start and this code is going to be really useful as a foundation to build on, but…

What if the code is absolutely terrible and needs to be scrapped ASAP?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#94

Post by elevenoh » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #44

Maybe not skills, but habits: - Give glowing, public praise to the work and behavior I want to see more of, rather than complain about what I want to see less. - Perform the necessary rituals with a smile, and not reveal any worry about their lack of purpose / fitness for purpose. - Use videoconferencing only for presentations, never for substantial interactive discussion. (Travel, make the decision locally, or write…

>- Perform the necessary rituals with a smile, and not reveal any worry about their lack of purpose / fitness for purpose.

This as a habit explains a lot of unsavoury corporate behaviour. ;)

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#95

Post by patch_cable » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

No matter how we live our lives, we're ultimately limited in how much we will experience by our natural life spans.

I see every interaction with someone else as an opportunity to peer into another life. A life I didn't live. A path I didn't take. Even if that path feels to you completely pedestrian, there is still a whole life there that you didn't live.

Even if they haven't examined or reflected on their life, you can (with respect, and perhaps best silently to yourself :-) ).

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#96

Post by watwut » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

1.) Assert yourself more against peers. A lot of advice around is a lot about how to be pleasant (listen, admit mistake, cooperate).

There is very little advice on what to do when you have not done mistake but someone is still trying to convince you or others so. Or when difference of opinion is casted as your mistake. How to recognize that situation.

2.) How to recognize when people bluff and pretend knowledge they don't have.

3.) How to promote yourself without becoming asshole. Again, I read all that be humble advice and it fired back.

4.) All in all, I would like to have more realistic advice about communication and not the overly naive "be humble, nice and admit mistakes and everything will be rosy".

5.) Right now, I would like to know how to deal with manipulative sociapath/narcissist.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#97

Post by elevenoh » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #89

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Start respecting the fact that intellectual development & progress is only one axis on the map that is the human experience. One can find interest, happiness and satisfaction by pursuing passions where scientific knowledge may only be of slight advantage instead of the absolute focus. Being a Musicians, touching the emotions of a whole crowd in a live performance is such a passion. Deeply complex, hugely important, s…

>Start respecting the fact that intellectual development & progress is only one axis on the map that is the human experience.

Excellent all too overlooked view IMO.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#98

Post by watwut » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

technofiend wrote: post #55

I hate to admit it but one of my bosses taught me that building consensus is a double edged sword and it can be used as weapon. Up until working with him I naively assumed we could all get in a room, hash out our technical differences and agree to a solution. That only works when everyone is (from your perspective) not a bad actor. But how do you deal with an Executive Director who will bald-faced lie and say whateve…

Why do you hate it to admit it? I would like to have this knowledge too.

I think that the "how to deal with bad actors" chapter of book is never written or the general advice of "just appease them to avoid them retaliating", then the good actors are not equipped to deal with bad actors.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#99

Post by justhw » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

randcraw wrote: post #16

People are 100X more sensitive to negativity than positivity. So if you feel the need to say something negative, either wait for someone else to say it so you can laugh and agree, or say nothing at all. Likewise, offer your opinion as little as possible unless it's positive or you've been explicitly asked for criticism. And even then describe how the thing could be improved, not how it sucked or how much.

Not being the deliverer of bad news is a great tactic however there are other methods like - the shit sandwich- that softens how hard they feel it.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#100

Post by tehlike » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

- get to know your bosses boss, and develop relationships. Your boss might eventually hit his limits, or might get in the way, but one way to resolve is having that connection.

- if your bosses boss doesnt understand/know of how to resolve a conflict that is making a fleet of people unhappy, and they are backing the person causing the conflict (in my case, a person that takes credit for everything everyone did by frontrunning their work to them), just leave. Dont wait too long, it doesnt get better.

- your career is important, and make it align with your boss'. If you do, he'll back you up. If he feels threatened, he will wear you down. If your boss is not a competent person, this is the only way to survival in such an org.

- you cant usually change people, the ones that are willing to admit their mistakes and want to improve wilk usually be very obvious. Lean on them, learn from them. Run away from the ones that wont ever change.

- things usually dont get better, be careful, learn to move on.