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Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

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Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#91

Post by mabbo »

I think what everyone truly wants is the ability to be forgotten. "Like I was never there".

But Facebook has a strong monetary incentive to never forget anything, ever. They have an incentive to make it unclear just how much data they're keeping about their users. They have a strong incentive to be as opaque as possible. And even if they let users be forgotten, they've got a strong incentive to make that hard to do.

How can Facebook balance it's responsibility to shareholders to earn profits with their responsibility as ethical humans to allow people to be forgotten? I do presume that, as people, they want to be ethical (and I'm sure someone will say I'm naive for believing that).

And how can Facebook make it's decision on where they lie on that spectrum clear to their users, so people can make informed decisions about what they want to share and do on the platform?

The hardest decisions businesses have to make is when to give up profit by doing the right thing. And the most profitable companies are the ones run by sociopaths for whom this is not a difficult problem.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#93

Post by ratel »

School-Cotton wrote: post #76
ratel wrote: post #17

Well, The big one would be nice: Facebook makes her money from harvesting and selling privacy sensitive data, or at least that is the perception shared by nation states, the EU and the wider audience. For any claim Facebook makes about respecting privacy to have at least face validity she need to show how she is going to make money without violating her users privacy. So how is Facebook going to make money if they ne…

It is not true that Facebook makes its money by selling private data, as you can verify by reading its publicly available earnings reports. It makes its money by selling ads, which it uses private data to target — a completely different thing.

I was really careful enough in my wording: Facebook sells privacy sensitive data as in very, very specific target groups for among other things ad targeting for their customers to use. I did not refer to the selling of private data.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#94

Post by School-Cotton »

ratel wrote: post #93
School-Cotton wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not true that Facebook makes its money by selling private data, as you can verify by reading its publicly available earnings reports. It makes its money by selling ads, which it uses private data to target — a completely different thing.

I was really careful enough in my wording: Facebook sells privacy sensitive data as in very, very specific target groups for among other things ad targeting for their customers to use. I did not refer to the selling of private data.

I genuinely don’t understand the distinction you’re making.

Facebook does not make its money from “selling data” at all, whether “private data” or “privacy-sensitive data”.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#95

Post by creaghpatr »

chatmasta wrote: post #85

How can I completely delete a messenger conversation? Is it even possible? If I’m talking to someone on messenger, and we both decide we want to delete the entire conversation, that should be possible with two button clicks. I talk to my significant other on messenger. It gives me nightmares that any employee at Facebook could access that conversation at any time in the next thirty years. It’s going to be really inte…

Conceivable? It just happened. https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-found-shawn-brooks-the-guy-...

edit: not a candidate though, would be harder to punch down on someone with political clout and a legal team.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#96

Post by robomartin »

More of a request than a question:

If they want to show respect for privacy a user ought to be able to deep-delete (meaning, from backups too) any and all information they ever posted in any form on FB. This might even include information that was the result of inference from posted data.

I would like a setting that, by default, erases all of my posts older than, say, 30 days.

I would actually pay for this. Not a lot. A nominal amount, like $10 or $20 a year for “premium” options. No problem at all with that concept.

Privacy, amongst other things, should mean the user owns their information, not the service. If I can’t ensure my information is deleted I am one data breach or one disgruntled employee away from losing my privacy.

In this age of vindictive “the internet hates everything” polarization, privacy is critically important.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#99

Post by ghostpepper »

School-Cotton wrote: post #94
ratel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was really careful enough in my wording: Facebook sells privacy sensitive data as in very, very specific target groups for among other things ad targeting for their customers to use. I did not refer to the selling of private data.

I genuinely don’t understand the distinction you’re making. Facebook does not make its money from “selling data” at all , whether “private data” or “privacy-sensitive data”.

Not the OP, but I am guessing they are trying to say that the distinction between "you pay facebook and they give you a database full of private data" and "you pay facebook and they give you API access to a database of private data and allow you to query it in myriad ways leading to you creating your own database of highly accurate private data" is not as important a distinction as Facebook would have you believe. Or something along those lines.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#100

Post by kodz4 »

dangerface wrote: post #64
kodz4 wrote: post #48

Ask them if they agree the like and view count next to every post/image/vid has a psychological effects on individuals and groups. If they agree, ask them if there is anything blocking them from studying the cases where the effects are negative on individuals and groups. If it is possible to list the kind of content where likes and views are having negative consequences to society that data(counts not content) should…

The problem with this argument is who decides whats harmful and whats legitimate society vs fringe society. We might both agree that your aunt's beliefs are harmful but the anti-vax society that your aunt is a part of will argue that us blindly following experts is harmful. Should facebook be the ones to decide whats harmful to society? If yes don't be surprised if they consider what they are doing not harmful.

Do Like and View counts have effects on Individuals and Groups outside of whatever their designed purpose is? Its a simple question Facebook needs to answer.

Those counts don't just effect my Aunt, they effect me too. If both the left and the right can agree that the numbers are having an effect, then the narrative changes. Currently we don't even acknowledge the root cause of lot of problems is not the content but the counts.

Those counts aren't just used by Facebook mind you, they can be used by anyone to trigger a particular group or an individual. The content used to do the triggering is just a superficial piece of the story.

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